ABBA on CD

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by el supernautico, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    Yes, but it is a fact. It has minor tape dropouts here and there and sounds veiled, compared to the original 80s CD.
     
  2. atoxique

    atoxique Forum Resident

    Of course the original CD release is the best, but it's also the most expensive and difficult to find. I think the Deluxe Edition is a nice compromise, it still retains all of the dynamics and it has all of the bonus tracks -- the two things the Astley remaster is missing. A few tiny tape dropouts here and there aren't as bothersome as brick-walling and strange equalisation. I don't think it sounds "veiled" either (assuming you mean "muffled" or something like that). What exactly do you mean by that?
     
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  3. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    Expensive and difficult to find...??? Not really...EVERY CD version before 1997 contains the original digital mastering !!!

    ABBA - The Visitors: CD, Album For Sale | Discogs

    ABBA - The Visitors: CD, Album, RP For Sale | Discogs

    ABBA - The Visitors: CD, Album, RP For Sale | Discogs

    I can't stand swapped channels and dropouts on a CD when I know that there is much more perfect version out there...
     
  4. atoxique

    atoxique Forum Resident

    I am glad to be corrected then! It's great to know that the proper mastering is available for much less than I thought.
     
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  5. Ivan

    Ivan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    The original
    As we know, The Visitors was digitally mastered, so why would there be a need for an analogue master?

    I understand the "basics" of mastering, but this is the first time I've heard of anything to do with an analogue master being used when the original was digital, so I'm genuinely curious.
     
  6. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    There were several threads !!! The analogue master was probably created for the LP cutting....and when the DELUXE EDITION was created, that faulty analogue cutting tape was use dinstead of the digital master (or, at least, a digital clone of it).
     
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  7. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
  8. Ivan

    Ivan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Excellent, thanks for the responses :)
     
  9. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    I think they used the same tape for the vinyl re-issue, the only dud in what was a great analogue sourced LP set - not a patch on the original (cutting room sweden) LP or Polar/Polydor CD
     
  10. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    You are right - the same mastertape was used for the vinyl reissues !!!
    I discovered that faulty tape when I bought my STUDIO ALBUMS box set and listened to all stuff with headphones...
     
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  11. Alexlotl

    Alexlotl Forum Resident

    Location:
    York, UK
    From the wiki article for The Visitors, emphasis mine.

    That may be the origin of any analogue master.

    As others have said, the original CD mastering is fantastic, with absurd DR (needs cranking!), and is easy to find.
     
    Hermes likes this.
  12. atoxique

    atoxique Forum Resident

    Quote once again: "digital to analogue and back again"

    That's what they meant by the digital master that all CDs except the Deluxe Edition use. As Sathvyre states, the Deluxe Edition CD and the version of The Visitors that is in the Studio Albums vinyl box set uses a completely different master of the album that is an analogue and slightly damaged copy of the original digital master tapes.

    I wonder why they used this analogue tape when the vastly superior digital master already exists. Maybe they mistakenly used it - or worse - what if they lost the original digital master? Of course that's very unlikely.
     
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  13. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    I think the original digital master is damaged due to age and doesn't work properly...but why not remaster from CD when you rerelease it on CD ??? I still don't get it...

    I am sure Michael B. Tretow doesn't remember exactly what he did in 1981...the digital tracks on the original CD / original master are definitely true digital. I am sure he never did any dub to tape and back for these songs...but probably for the vinyl cutting tapes.
     
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  14. Alexlotl

    Alexlotl Forum Resident

    Location:
    York, UK
    Yes, my point was that this analogue tape, used for the bounce, may be the “analogue master” in question.

    Just a suggestion - I have no insider knowledge here!
     
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  15. atoxique

    atoxique Forum Resident

    Indeed it is very strange why they didn't just use an old CD release. As you have showed me, it's not like they're rare or anything, and the CD will sound just as good as the original master tapes. I don't think anything higher than 16-bit 44.1 KHz existed in 1981!
     
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  16. atoxique

    atoxique Forum Resident

    That is a possibility indeed, although I don't really think so. The digital master was more than likely copied onto two analogue tapes for cutting an LP, one for each side of the record obviously.

    The digital tape may have simply been unavailable (e.g. in a different country), or maybe it got deteriorated, got damaged, got lost, or maybe even the tape machines used to play them don't work anymore and maybe they thought it wasn't worth it to spend money trying to get them working again, so they just used the analogue copy.

    Only theories, anything's possible.
     
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  17. little_earthquakes90

    little_earthquakes90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    The UK/Europe Polydor and Spectrum CD's are actually the one with the tracks in the wrong order. "Watch Out" and "What About Livingstone" are switched on both these and the 1997 remasters, purely because the 97 remasters used the same cheapo artwork - same reason why 'ABBA' still had the random selection of bonus tracks. This wasn't corrected until 2001.

    Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I've recently been trawling through my ABBA CD collection, sourcing my preferred versions.

    So far, I've found the following to be a combination of the nicest on my ears AND the most easily available:

    Ring Ring - Deluxe Edition (or the 2005 CSR remaster)
    Waterloo - Deluxe Edition (or the 1990 Polydor/92 Spectrum as a distant back up)
    ABBA - Deluxe Edition (or the 2005 CSR remaster)
    Arrival - Polydor 1984
    The Album - None, more info to follow
    Voulez Vous - Polydor 1984
    Super Trouper - Polydor 1984 (but switch out the title track for the version from the pickwick 'The Hits' compilatiin from 1986)
    The Visitors - Polydor 1983

    I think the more sparse and typical band sounds of the first 3 albums copes quite well with being messed around with and compressed. By the time you get to 1976 and their recording style became more and more layered with multiple tracks and doubling up of instrumentation and vocals, compressing it to meet 'modern' standards just makes it sound like one bit loud mess.

    Essential compilations

    all 4 of the UK Pickwick CD's (The Hits, The Hits 2, The Hits 3 and The Love Songs) feature some great sounding tracks. A few blips here and there, not quite sure what they did with 'Under Attack' for example, but the majority sound great. Especially good for any tracks that are a bit dodgy on the Polydor's and some tracks that were just singles. 'Fernando' and 'Summer Night City' sound great and 'Super Trouper' is almost identical to the Polydor album version but without the dropout at 3:44.

    'Abba International' and 'From ABBA With Love' are worth tracking down too for some rarities in good quality audio, usually very cheap too.

    Polydor's Greatest Hits Volume 2 is well worth it, although it can be pricey and for some tracks, for example 'Take A Chance On Me' and 'Eagle' that are problematic on the Polydor release of the original album, these are almost as good on the Pickwick CD's. Same goes for the Polar or Polydor CD release of 'The Singles: The First 10 Years'.

    The Album

    Oh boy, what a hot mess! This is actually my favourite album but my god, it's horribly represented. Every single release has it's issues. I made a playlist using some better versions.

    1. Eagle (from Pickwick 'The Hits 2', 1988. Less bright than the Thank You For The Music boxset, but no distortion like the Polydor)
    2. Take A Chance On Me (from Polydor 'The Singles: The First 10 Years', 1983. Pickwick 'The Hits' is a decent second)
    3. One Man, One Woman (from Pickwick 'The Love Songs', 1989)
    4. The Name of the Game (Mastered for iTunes version - no distortion and not as compressed as the Astley versions)
    5. Move On (from Polydor 'The Album' 1984)
    6. Hole In Your Soul (from Polydor 'The Album' 1984)
    7. Thank You For The Music (from Polydor 'Greatest Hits vol 2, 1983)
    8. I Wonder (Departure) (from Polydor 'Greatest Hits vol 2, 1983)
    9. I'm A Marionette (from Polydor 'The Album' 1984)

    Hope this helps! Bottom line really is if you are on the hunt for good quality CD ABBA sources, don't spend too much. All the Polydor's and Pickwick CD's can be picked up dirt cheap on discogs and ebay and are all well worth having. 'Greatest Hits vol 2' and 'The Singles' are worth picking up but only if you get them at decent prices. I paid £7 for my GHV2 CD and I'm glad I didn't pay more. The rest of my Polydor's I've had for 20-odd years but using the bar code scanner on the ebay app, they're all widely available at low prices. The only Polydor's to be wary of are the first 3 albums, which are a bit messy ('ABBA' being the worst offender).

    For a compilation, if you're not overly fussy, the 'Thank You For The Music' boxset isn't half bad. A little bright, but certainly better than any of the widely available 1997 or 2001 remasters and I prefer it over any of the Gold and More Gold releases.
     
  18. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    Waterloo: Original track order is on the swedish LP and CD !!!
     
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  19. little_earthquakes90

    little_earthquakes90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    Apologies, your post read like you were saying that the US CD releases had 2 songs switched but not the U.K. Polydor or Spectrum
     
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  20. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    Yes, that's right. Check Discogs. Swedish and german CD and LP are correct.
     
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  21. little_earthquakes90

    little_earthquakes90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    Sorry, I'm confused. Are you saying that the UK Polydor and Spectrum album contains the correct tracklisting? If so, that's not correct I'm afraid.

    The Swedish Polar CD release mirrors the tracklisting from the original Swedish LP, including both the English and Swedish versions of 'Waterloo'.

    The German Polydor CD, released in 1990 has 'Watch Out' and 'What About Livingstone' the wrong way around.

    ABBA - Waterloo

    The Spectrum UK release from 93 is a clone of the 1990 Polydor CD and also features the incorrect tracklisting.

    Until 2001, the only correct European pressing of 'Waterloo' on CD was the Swedish Polar. German Polydor's are all incorrect as is the 1997 remaster.
     
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  22. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    You are right !!! My mistake !!! So the only correct versions are indeed the swedish LP and CD versions !!!
     
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  23. little_earthquakes90

    little_earthquakes90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    2001 remaster fixed the track listing. But as we all know opened up a whole other heap of WTF .

    2001 Astley, 2005 CSR, 30th Annivesary CD/DVD and the latest Deluxe version all feature the correct running order. But until 1997, the only CD version that’s correct was the Swedish Polar.

    The 1990 Ring Ring & Waterloo releases really were so half baked and cheap. Such a shame really given than the other Polydor’s are so good
     
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  24. anduandi

    anduandi Senior Member

    Does that mean the Pickwick cds have a better sonic quality than the Reader's Digest cd-boxset ?
     
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  25. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    It's not that easy...you have to compare track by track. Some songs on the RD compilation sound better than the PW and sometimes it's the opposite...
     

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