ABBA - Super Trouper Deluxe Edition coming May 2011

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by OberonOz, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Hootenannysinger

    Hootenannysinger Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Now when I've listened more to ST Deluxe I must say I miss some dynamics in The winner takes it all and Super Trouper. Example, about 3 min 30 sec in the song TWTIA, when the song reaches its highest point, I think it's most obvious that it's more compressed than the original. Too bad, cause everything else regarding the sound is so good.
     
  2. Raf

    Raf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Does anyone know if they're planning to release a deluxe version of The Visitors?
     
  3. Ricko

    Ricko Forum Resident

    From your lips to God's ears...

    What are you banging on about? Apart from transforming the "original" from its Hi-hat Epic status into something much better, the volume has been appropriately raised for that verse by a tiny degree because that's what the record builds to. This is what a digital remaster should do: correct things like this which were possibly not feasible for a mastering for vinyl.

    And no, the passage is not as you claim "obviously compressed" at all, and can you clarify exactly what missing "dynamics" you're talking about?
     
  4. Hootenannysinger

    Hootenannysinger Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Why should a digital remaster be more compressed than the vinyl version or the master tape? I think all Abba songs are compressed enough already on the master tape. According to me, the ST De would have been better without any additional compression. You mean that the record were "meant" to sound as the ST De does?

    In TWTIA, from 3 min 55 sec , I notice the compression in a quite negative way. The effect is that it sounds more tiny and the piano is not as clear compared to the original.

    If you like compression so much, I can recommend the 2005 CSR for you :)
     
  5. Ricko

    Ricko Forum Resident

    Yes actually I believe Bjorn and Benny were aiming for as much compression as the vinyl technology would allow. That was their style, and it's a time-tested way to get maximum impact on a record. I'd suggest you take up the issue of compression with them, as well as the hundreds of producers who've used compression on the thousands of singles we've worshipped from the 60s onwards.

    You were whining about compression @ 3.30 - now it's at 3.55. Make up your mind, but compression doesnt sound tiny or tinny when used. It has the opposite effect. And as for you wisecrack about the 2005 masters, its not judicious use of compression that ruined them: more like excessive noise removal and brickwalling to cover it.

    If there's one thing all the Abba threads here make abundantly clear, it's the fact that so many know so little about compression and I'm wondering if it's a shared trait amongst Abbafans lol :laugh:
     
  6. Hootenannysinger

    Hootenannysinger Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    I know there are differences between brickwalling and compression, let's not discuss that here, that's more a technical issue. The ST DE sounds more compresses and is more compressed than the original, and even if B&B wanted as much compression as they could get, I don't think that's a reason to compress ST DE more. With that type of argument you could continue further towards CSR.

    So you hope they will compress the Visitors DE more than the original?
     
  7. Barry Vaughan

    Barry Vaughan Member

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Which original? The LP? Because to my ears the ST DE sounds remarkably close to my (early press) LP. (Much closer than the original Polydor CD).
     
  8. Hootenannysinger

    Hootenannysinger Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    "Tiny" was the wrong word for what I meant. Of course I meant that the result is a more flat, boring sound, when dynamic is reduced.

    About the "original": I mean the polydor cd from early 80's. I haven't heard the lp. I know you could always discuss what's the "original".
     
  9. Barry Vaughan

    Barry Vaughan Member

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    I think it would be fair to say that, for an album from 1980 ie. before the manufacture of the CD format, the LP can be considered the original (and moreso than the cassette or the 8-track, before some wiseacre gets in there!)

    As I have said above, as someone who has been listening to this album in some form or other for 30+ years, the DE is the first CD edition to sound tonally like the LP.

    I can't wait for the same approach to be taken to The Visitors, and I hope they go back and "fix" Arrival and The Album.
     
  10. evh5150

    evh5150 Active Member

    Today, I did a quick A-B between the title track of the Super Trouper Deluxe Edition and the Polydor CD (800 023-2).

    The first thing to notice is the huge treble difference; the Deluxe has much less treble, and sounds more natural because of it. Linked to that is that the bass guitar on the Deluxe is much fuller in comparison to the Polydor - on occasion, the latter gives an effect of a bassline without the full sound of the note being played. I hope that makes sense to everyone!

    In the Polydor's defence, many of us will be used to hearing that treble on previous releases, and in the middle section of the title track ("So I'll be there when you arrive / The sight of you will prove to me, I'm still alive"), that treble actually gives an airy effect to the vocals which is really nice on the years. That effect doesn't come across on the Deluxe.

    Based on comparing this one track, I wouldn't say I prefer one mastering over the other, although I do appreciate the improved bass sound and sensible treble on the Deluxe edition.
     
  11. evh5150

    evh5150 Active Member

    ...really nice on the ears!
     
  12. evh5150

    evh5150 Active Member

    Anyone else done any further A-Bing?
     
  13. SACDLover

    SACDLover Member

    Location:
    Auckland
    The DE sounds muddy and dull. Compression on drums on title track sound horrible. The Atlantic / Polydor sounded best.
     
  14. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    Well that's going to be exciting to get for Christmas! ;)
     
  15. evh5150

    evh5150 Active Member

    Would like to hear your thoughts if you picked this up, Mike.
     
  16. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    Just seen your post!

    Yes, I picked it up and compared a few tracks on headphones (not as good as the speakers on the system and with a bias on the top end.) I compared the Atlantic, the early Polar and the most recent remaster. I thought the Polar was the worst of the three sounding quite dull. The remaster had more emphasis on the mid range than the Atlantic. A little too much for my liking - and could have done with a little more top end for me. On that basis I prefered the Atlantic on headphones, but briefly through the speakers it was less clear for me. My wife thought the Atlantic sounded better through the speakers though. There's not a huge amount in it, and the remaster is definitely listenable and not unpleasant. The remastered videos for Super Trouper and Happy New Year are not great. Both suffer from terrible motion jerkiness and Happy New Year makes Agnetha's skin look orange. There are still tape defects to be heard on the album too!
     
  17. So it seems like some prefer the 2011 remaster, while others (including myself) prefer the 1985ish Atlantic. No consensus here! ;)
     
  18. evh5150

    evh5150 Active Member

    I think they both just sound different, and a lot will come down to how you like your treble boost, and also how stuck you are on how the album has sounded down the years. I liked the deluxe edition as it toned down the treble boost and made everything seem a bit more natural.

    But, your mileage may vary!
     
  19. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
  20. chriss71

    chriss71 Active Member

    Location:
    Austria
    Yep, this album will never sound audiophil! :edthumbs:
     
  21. I always thought that the Atlantic version sounded so excellent though.
     
  22. chriss71

    chriss71 Active Member

    Location:
    Austria
    OK. Let me see how often I have this album.

    Polydor 1st Press 800 023-2
    SHM-CD 2009 UICY-93892
    Deluxe Edition

    Don't have the Atlantic Version. Can you post EAC Levels of the Atlantic.
     
  23. ABBA - Super Trouper [Atlantic 16023-2]

    (for some reason the file directory has Bach in it, although I am pretty sure that these EAC values are correct)

    Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

    EAC extraction logfile from 4. January 2012, 11:52

    ABBA / Super Trouper [Atlantic 16023-2]

    Used drive : hp DVD-RAM GH60L Adapter: 2 ID: 1

    Read mode : Secure
    Utilize accurate stream : Yes
    Defeat audio cache : No
    Make use of C2 pointers : No

    Read offset correction : 667
    Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
    Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
    Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
    Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
    Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
    Gap handling : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

    Performing a test extraction only


    TOC of the extracted CD

    Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1 | 0:00.32 | 4:11.60 | 32 | 18916
    2 | 4:12.17 | 4:55.03 | 18917 | 41044
    3 | 9:07.20 | 3:40.37 | 41045 | 57581
    4 | 12:47.57 | 4:39.33 | 57582 | 78539
    5 | 17:27.15 | 4:55.17 | 78540 | 100681
    6 | 22:22.32 | 4:24.05 | 100682 | 120486
    7 | 26:46.37 | 4:20.00 | 120487 | 139986
    8 | 31:06.37 | 3:27.05 | 139987 | 155516
    9 | 34:33.42 | 4:35.53 | 155517 | 176194
    10 | 39:09.20 | 3:15.07 | 176195 | 190826


    Track 1

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\01 Super Trouper - ABBA.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 3.4 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC C7F09496
    Accurately ripped (confidence 10) [A35BF8DB] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 2

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\02 The Winner Takes All - ABBA.wav

    Peak level 95.5 %
    Extraction speed 3.7 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC FD02F000
    Accurately ripped (confidence 10) [6CD4F150] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 3

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\03 On And On And On - ABBA.wav

    Peak level 93.2 %
    Extraction speed 4.2 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 0C75A4FE
    Accurately ripped (confidence 9) [40C9E508] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 4

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\04 Andante, Andante - ABBA.wav

    Peak level 82.7 %
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    Test CRC 1C527AF0
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    Copy OK

    Track 5

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\05 Me And I - ABBA.wav

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    Test CRC FE4777D8
    Accurately ripped (confidence 9) [E39BB0E4] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 6

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\06 Happy New Year - ABBA.wav

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    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 92062EF2
    Accurately ripped (confidence 9) [E11DEA62] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 7

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\07 Our Last Summer - ABBA.wav

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    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 39067843
    Accurately ripped (confidence 9) [72628F4C] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 8

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\08 The Piper - ABBA.wav

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    Test CRC 56B7F1E8
    Accurately ripped (confidence 9) [A6430FD4] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 9

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\09 Lay All Your Love On Me - ABBA.wav

    Peak level 92.8 %
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    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 3E6BF318
    Accurately ripped (confidence 9) [3B16513B] (AR v1)
    Copy OK

    Track 10

    Filename C:\Users\Ondrich Family\Music\Bach\Johann Sebastian Bach - Cello Suites - CD 1 of 2 (cello- Maria Kliegel) [NAXOS 8.557280-81]\10 The Way Old Friends Do - ABBA.wav

    Peak level 70.6 %
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    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 1EB712AF
    Accurately ripped (confidence 9) [C8AC82F8] (AR v1)
    Copy OK


    All tracks accurately ripped

    No errors occurred

    End of status report
     
  24. Plus some Atlantic pressing related videos on YouTube (even in 720p the sound quality is still compromised, although it does give a rough idea of the sound)

    ABBA Me and I (1980) Various CD Versions Loudness War - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HwOwtgIYig&hd=1

    ABBA Lay All Your Love On Me Loudness War 1980's to 2005 CD Versions - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBJdfkXV5_s&hd=1

    ABBA The Way Old Friends Do Fade Out (Polydor and Atlantic CD versions) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2xDNXHW9K8&hd=1

    ABBA Super Trouper [Atlantic 16023-2 CD Pressing] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsPVNkC13PA&hd=1
     
  25. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    I'm wouldn't say it sounds excellent - there's something about it that hasn't sounded right in the past, but it does possibly sound best. Still has dropouts and stuff though too.
     

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