ABBA US Polydor question

Do the US Polydor (Manufactured & marketed by A & M) cds (circa 1995?) have the same mastering as the West German/France manufactured discs? Also, would somebody post EAC info for a US Polydor of Arrival? Thanks!

 

Yes - they do.

 

Not to dispute you, Kenny, but I do have a US Polydor copy of Super Trouper, pre-remastering, and it lacks any of the drop-outs that are noted on the original German Polydor editions. Do you happen to know if the 1995 edition of this album might have used the Atlantic CD master as a reference?

 

What's the catalogue number? And are you sure that it's missing the huge dropout at the end of Super Trouper?

 

Kenny, the catalogue number is 422800-023-2. It is the 1995 reissue on US Polydor, marketed and manufactured by A&M Records (as stated on CD label).

I have had the opportunity to listen to this in my car, on my home stereo, and through headphones plugged into the breakout box on my computer CD player. At no time was there a massive audio dropout during Super Trouper, as noted by many listeners on the earlier 1980s German Polydor CD pressings.

After listening to an MP3 sample of the Atlantic CD mastering, I can confirm that it is NOT from that mastering. The bass level is in line with the descriptions of the original Polydor pressing. Just curious if this was, perhaps, a new transfer of the same tapes done in the 1990s for the US release. If so, does this perhaps mean that the mid-90s US masterings might be new transfers? I would be curious to hear if anyone has the 90's US pressings of other albums, and if there are differences from the earlier German Polydors.

Oh, and Kenny, I would like to extend my thanks to you for your hard work and research into this field. I have extensively read your posts on Abba Plaza, Abba on CD, and on this forum. You are an invaluable resource for Abba fans who want to be brought as close to the music as possible.

Cheers,
Séan

 

I've sent you a PM about the CD but there's a few points that are worth stating publicly about the known position on the Abba masters in the middle of the nineties.

Basically, if there was a new transfer, it wouldn't have been done from Atlantic's master tapes.

There was no obligation on Polar's licencees to return their master copies once their Abba contracts ran out and PolyGram, which bought Polar in 1989, showed little interest in retrieving the tapes from them.

This attitude extended to tapes which had been sent by Polar to subsidiaries of PolyGram, even for masters that were no longer held by Polar.

For instance, none of the group's German language tracks were held by Polar by the time of the PolyGram purchase. Several different remixes of Ring Ring were also missing too.

The German tracks eventually found their way back to Polar but the general attitude only changed after Universal bought PolyGram, particularly after an embarrassing incident when Jon Astley and Michael B Tretow were forced to master one of the missing tracks from a bootleg CD.

This eventually led to the repatriation of various missing masters from Polydor Germany and Atlantic during the 2001/2 period. Sony later handed over their complete set of UK Epic Abba master tapes to Universal.

Getting back on track, the only place that PolyGram could have got a new transfer of Super Trouper in 1995 is from the former Polar Music vaults in Sweden.

 

wow...that was incredibly interesting about how those masters went all over the place! i can't wait for ur european compilations part 2 on ur site! thanks again!

 

The general rule was that if it wasn't issued in Sweden, it wasn't in the Polar vaults.

 

Okay, having compared several digital files sent to me by Sean, I can confirm that it's a unique mastering.

It's a bit of an oddball too - it's been mastered like a 1980s pressing. In fact, The Winner Takes It All is slightly lower than on the 1983 Polar/Polydor version. Super Trouper, on the other hand, is slightly louder.

I can understand why people believed for so long that it was a clone of the 1980s issue - it sounds almost identical.

I've also ruled out it being mastered during the 1992 Abba Gold sessions - the EQ doesn't even remotely match and the playback speed is ever so slightly different.

The next step for me is to track down some more of these 1995 A&M rereleases and see if they are also different to the 1980s European issues.

 

Just don't expect any massive sonic differences. If it hadn't been for the dropout fix, I don't think anyone would have spotted the difference.

 

Thanks for looking into this Ken. I, too, will be interested to hear what you discover, sonic differences or not!

Cheers,
Sean

 

Bump

 

Is it only "Super Trouper" the only title that differs on mastering from the original West German pressings? I'm looking forward to buy the 1995 US edition of Arrival only if its the same mastering.

 

For what it's worth, the original Atlantic CD of "Super Trouper" was just awful. It sounded thin & had no dynamic range whatsoever. I remember thinking "If this is what digital CD technolgy's all about they can just shove it."

And those were the days you shelled out big bucks and fondly called them "Little Laser Darlings"!

 

Interesting - there are quite a few people running around saying that it's among the best Abba CDs ever made. I've never heard it though.

 

They lie. Like dawgs!

I mean "Winner Takes It All" is sposed to sound epic isn't it? Not like the piano's down the block & round the corner lol

Knowing a bit more about the technology than I knew then, I'd say it was just struck straight off a pressing tape of God-knows-how-many-generations with no EQing appropriate to compact disc. I was much happier with its W. Ger Polydor replacement, which is coincidentally nowhere to be currently found in my collection. Hmmmm...

 

Well, if you want to know the truth. There's nothing like good Swedish Polar LP and 45 RPM vinyl. And the UK Epic and West German Polydor vinyl is nice and better Atlantic pressings are nice. The old Atlantic, Polar, and Polydor CD issues have their faults, but aren't harsh and can be cranked. But the vinyl still rules.

 

Funnily enough, a member of this forum mastered the Atlantic CD.

 

I just did a quick comparison of the original WG and Atlantic Super Trouper. The US Atlantic breathes better, has a perfectly satisfactory midrange and bass, which seems slightly tighter and punchier. The WG is veiled by comparison IMO. It's possible the Atlantic is slightly bright, but it's a close call. It sounds great to me, and I prefer it to the WG mastering.

 

Total agreement. It was always the Polar vinyl I gravitated to. The US Atlantic vinyl was a bit hit & miss, but that would be factoring in actual vinyl quality and stampers pushed beyond their use-by for mass production. Atlantic LP "Visitors" sounded better than "Super Trouper", but neither seemed to cut it like the earlier albums AIR

The EPIC 45 12inchers were always great!

It's the "slightly bright" aspect of CD mastering that turns me right off. CDs get remastered "slightly bright" because the masterer isn't referencing the vinyl originals...especially the 45s. Abba didn't make "slightly bright" records, and indeed were dismayed enough by digital recording to mix "The Vistors" right back to analog for mastering.

Oops! 20-something posts and I'm already making enemies...darn it, I hope he's not into payback in a big way...

 

Okay, I hear ya, and I don't have vinyl to compare to -- but let me just say I own about all of the most well-regarded ABBA CDs, and the Atlantic Super Trouper sound just fine relative to them. When I say "slightly bright", the emphasis is on "slightly". It's nothing like a modern mastering, and like I said, the bass and midrange are quite nice.

That said, if you say the vinyl stomps it, I have no grounds to question you.

 

lol Thanks for the vote of confidence but it would be remiss of me to not mention Michael B Tretow's stunning remastering of six of the "Super Trooper" tracks on the "Thank You For The Music" box. Now THAT'S how Abba should sound on CD. Disc 3 is absolute perfection - marred only because the complete "Super Trooper" and "Visitors" LPs weren't done.

Michael B apparently used the original stereo mixdowns with reasonable EQing and no NR, rather than the generationally-removed LP cutting tapes which apparently were used on all issues before and after.

 

His equalisation work was far from reasonable - all his remasters are overly bright. In addition, the mixdowns were used for the 1997 and 2001 remasters.

 

Yeah some folks say theyre overly bright but they sound perfect to me. I gave Disc 3 a blast at supersonic levels this afternoon and it's all good! I think that dash of top-end brightness is a perfect balance for all the low end.

The box is a keeper for me!