Acoustic Research: power hungry?

Anybody hear those replicas of the AR3? Acoustic Research sold these-12" woofer/"fried egg" midrange/dome tweeter-in limited quantities back around 1997 or so. I got to hear them at a store here but they were being powered by an $800 Onkyo HT receiver so I didn't really get to see what they could do (my 311 "Blue" CD sounded quite lifeless so these really do need some heavy current!).

 

Yeah, the AR-303. They are great speakers! Some nice improvements made on an already superb speaker system.

 

AR-9s !!

About 25 years ago a friend of mine bought a pair of AR-9s (new). We were both only about 17 years old so he was still living with his parants at the time, but needless to say that I was around there most weekends and we gave his parants and sisters merry hell playing classics such as Pink Floyd's DSOTM and APP I Robot on MFSL masters, to name just a couple. The AR-9 was indeed a classic speaker and in its day nothing could touch it for accuracy, bandwidth and listening pleasure. 25 years on and he lives in a waterfront palace with $$$$ views and a very expensive hi-fi system. His main lounge room is filled with expensive antique furniture and at one end of the room there are 2 expensive vases supported by a pair of (you guessed it) AR-9s. He actually owns 2 pairs of them but keeps the 2nd pair at the holiday ranch. He recently bought a pair of B&W 800Ss, his first speaker purchase in 20 years and they are now in the main listening room, replacing one of the pairs of ARs. Yes, the B&Ws are more accurate and detailed but to my ears they don't advance the listening experience to the extent you might think, considering all the technology, development and cost that has gone into them. Like most of the technically perfect speakers of today, the B&Ws will mercilessly reveal recording and mastering imperfections and lash you with ear splitting and glaring treble, whereas the ARs tend to soften and sweeten the hard edged transients and add a touch of mid bass warmth to give more of a vinyl and tube feel to modern digital recordings.

 

This is something I still get confused about: there are so many people working on trying to provide us with equipment that delivers sound that is true as possible to its source, but many times it's the source that is unpleasant to listen to. THEN what do you do? Because when revealing speakers finally get to reproduce a well-recorded source, woo hoo! then all those years of research and money spent are worth it. But since rock/pop is consistantly the most variable as far as recording qaulity is concerned, I've learned to just ignore the bad recordings (or use bass/treble controls to tame any extreme problems) and simply listen to the music itself.....which is why I bought that album in the first place.

But I also think as far as B&W vs. Acoustic Research is concerned, we are still dealing with something that has been around ever since more than one loudspeaker existed: depending on the listener's physical and mental (i.e. preference) hearing system characterisitcs, that listener will simply prefer one speaker over the other. I still wish I would have bought those black ash Klipsch KLF-20s--traditional horn tweeter & horn midrange with dual 10" ported woofers-that Tweeter was blowing out a few years ago for only 800 bucks a pair. With rock and pop CDs were they fun as heck, but I just didn't have the space for them. And I also only listen to one complete album at a time (most of the time) so listener's fatigue doesn't really factor into my speaker preferences.

BTW: other sealed systems like those from Advent, EPI, (some) Infinitys, older Boston Acoustics, etc while not having quite the same amount of bass extension-relatively speaking-as AR's speakers, still have that very smooth acoustic-suspension bass quality and without the need of a huge power amplifier. And if you don't like large floorstanders & have some patience as far as set-up issues go, integrating a good subwoofer into a system with large-enough bookshelf speakers can add loads of solid and very deep bass with not that much monetary sacrifice.

 

I just picked a pair of AR 4Xs my thought was to use them with my Pioneer SA 8500 60 watt integrated. Any thoughts....

 

That integrated will do just fine. The 4x does not need quite as much power as their bigger brothers. The 4x will amaze you with its its huge sound! It is a great little speaker, one of the best small speakers ever.

 

I was hoping you'd say that Thanks...

 

When you get everything working, let us know how it sounds!

 

Joe-
I'd love to see a copy of those specs. I recently salvaged a pair of AR-3a out of an old mansion I was working on. Thanks!

mattjonz AT comcast . net

 

bump

 

An old thread, but darn interesting.
I have been using a pair of AR-5's since about 1979-80. I inherited them from a cousin who stepped up to the AR-9's (and he still has those!)
Over the past 30 years, I've listened to a lot of stereo systems in homes and in stores. Mostly, I am horrified
at what people have come to think acceptable audio is (never mind "good"; I'd be happy if the consumer
stuff was even acceptable). Alas, the "stereo shop" days of the 1970s and 1980s are long gone.

I have refoamed the AR-5's and replaced the crossover caps. I drive them with a Dynaco ST 400 (also recapped,
cleaned inside and out, bias and DC voltages set, etc), so I've got
plenty of power for them. The only time I damaged them was back in my college days in the early 1980s, when
I foolishly let some friends use them for a party - they drove them with a cheap Panasonic 50W/channel receiver
and burned out both tweeters and a midrange. Luckily, AR was still in business back then, and I was able to
buy a brand new pair of tweeters and a midrange for about $125 total. It ain't the power that kills those tweeters.
It's the clipping.

I used to drive them with an ST-80 (40 W per channel), but their sound really cleaned up with more power,
and you don't have to play them loud to notice this.

Sure, there is better equipment out there. But this stuff is bloody excellent. The amount of smooth, tight, clean
bass that comes out of the relatively small AR-5 cabinet is amazing. The midrange and highs are clean and as smooth
as butter, but not lacking crispness or sizzle.

And the older I get, the better these speakers probably are for my ears. I'm sure I can't hear anything above
14 kHz or so anymore, so if the speaker rolls off above there, who cares? If it's flat and clean up to that point,
it is simply beautiful.

 

Interesting thread indeed. I got a pair of AR2 cheap, the audiophile seller said they sounded off. I realized that the units were not serial number matched, they were sold separately for mono use. I opened one of them and interchanged the polarity of just the woofer. Problem solved, gorgeous sound, and passed all audiophile CD phase tests.

I then started searching for supertweeters for these, AR made them for the AR1 and AR2. Not only are these supertweeters expensive but hard to come by on eBay.

So I went to East end audio here, and they happened to be experts on AR, even saw an AR 9 there! They said they would custom build a Supertweeter for me. It was to be shoehorned in around 5k and go up to 30k, with infinity ribbon tweeter. What a sweet sound! They added a switchable resistor to reduce treble if desired.

The Supertweeter are phase matched and sit on top of the AR2 in the vertical position to maximize imaging.

 

Picked up a pair of AR2's locally yesterday. Date to around '59/60. Evidently, according to the seller, they had sat idle for decades. Brought them home and wired them up. One sounded great, the other a little quiet. But after letting them play for a few hours, it woke up! I guess the caps, which are in all likelihood oil filled, needed to reform, and now it too sounds wonderful. Have them sitting horizontally on my Klipsch Cornwall II's where they seem very happy. Driving them with a Fisher 500C. Very happy to have this little piece of audio history.

 

3a

 

I'm currently re-foaming my 2nd pair of NINES. They will be my mains going forward. When mated with my Mcintosh pre and CJ power it's just sublime.

 

Not recommended. Too inefficient. AR did make a speaker suited for your application, the AR4x. That is a viable speaker for your amplifier. Acoustic suspension equals power hungry. Also try the Dynaco A 25 (while not acoustic suspension, a nice alternative for your amplifier, and clean and relatively distortion free bass). AR5 is better with double to triple the amplifier power and higher damping factors, and SS amplifiers.

 

McLover is right. I've had some nice listens using lower powered tube amps with various AR speakers, including the 3 and 3a. Lately, my 500C and X-100-B have been used with my 2's and 2ax's.

That said, swapped in a 200 watt Harman Kardon Citation 22 today with the 2's, and it's a whole 'nuther listen. The 2's, with their dual mids/tweeters, are a very sturdy speaker, and they truly do open up and turn into an excellent speaker for loud music. Listening to some '74 Dead this morning was a revelation.

 

I love my 303's. No upgrade needed for me.

 

It's 14 years later now, and I don't have that 30w amp any more! Of course your answer is gladly received and should be on record.

 

The ARs do shine with more power. I went from MC402 to CJ350 and spit out my coffee in amazement upon hearing the difference.

 

so if I want 3a's with my 70 wpc Primaluna Prologue 6 tube monoblocks wouldn't be enough?

 

Try and see. You might not squeeze every last drop of bass response out of that big woofer, but dependent on your room size, how loud you listen, the kind of music you listen to, you could be fine. Clipping is the biggest worry with the 3a's. Those tweeters are fragile The danger of doing that with tube amps is a lot less then underpowered solid state.

 

I'm refurbing my AR90's. All refoamed, with new capacitors and resistors. Dynamat on all the driver baskets too. Last, but not least, I'm refinishing the cabinets. Scared about doing that, as I don't want to ruin them.

While the 90's are down, I picked up a pair of AR-1MS mini-monitors, and a pair of AR58S speakers. Both very nice, but the 58S speakers are awesome. The same tweeters and dome mids, as the 90's, and the AR9 12" woofer. It's the first time that I've heard the AR 12, and I'm very impressed. Deep and fast, with good detail. A very musical woofer.

Oh yea, power. Originally, a 40 watt NAD 3140 integrated, then bridged NAD 2155/3155 amps, an Amber Series 70 amp, and finally, a Hafler HD-500. All worked fine for me. But, I don't crank.

 

thanks for the reply. anybody driving AR3a's with tube gear?

 

I drove my 3’s and 3a’s with Dynaco MKIII’S, and various Fisher gear. They never sounded bad. But I kept a couple of bigger solid state amps to rotate in when I really wanted to hear what the speakers were capable of. Pro amps from Crown sound great and are cheap and deliver all the watts you need, and more. I’ve teamed mine up with a tube pre to get the best of both worlds.

Just a suggestion.