Advantages of Upgrading Technics SL1200 MKII to something vintage?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Rkellner, Jun 16, 2014.

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  1. Rkellner

    Rkellner Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntington, NY
    This forum is a blessing and a curse. It makes you look at every piece of hardware in your system and say "Good enough?" "Can I do better?"

    That being said, I have a pretty nice, by my standards, setup with a Technics SL-1200 with an Ortofon Bronze cart going into a vintage Marantz Amp (nothing too crazy, solid state) and playing through some Klipsch Reference-5 Towers. Sounds pretty good to my ears.

    However, I look at the awesome vintage Thorens that are being restored by people like Vinyl Nirvana and others and I wonder if a table like that would make much of a difference in sound? Basically, the question boils down to: If everything was the same, even the cart, how much of difference is there is the table itself in regards to sound reproduction?

    Along the same lines, for the price ($800-1200/table) is it better to go with a restored vintage table or something new like a VPI or Rega?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    A Thorens like what VN is selling will provide a more open, airy presentation vs. an SL-1200, with greater imaging depth. Adding a superior arm like an SME 3009 will improve resolution.
     
    Ghostworld likes this.
  3. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    The difference in sound is very much down to the tonearm, IME. The 1200II does a lot of things right, like very low W&F, low rumble and hum, very hard to get that better IMO. It will benefit from an upgrade to a better arm, also IME.
    That would be my choice, put a very good arm on it and it will compete with any TT, in principle.
     
    crispi, Nielsoe and Brother_Rael like this.
  4. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Answering the part I bolded, quite significant. For that price range I would go for a used VPI. Even my very old VPI Scout (SN in the 200s) was a big improvement from the SL-1200.
     
  5. Rkellner

    Rkellner Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntington, NY
    Huh, this is an unexpected response. Recommendations for a compatible tonearm? Will it involve soddering wire to the board of the TT ?
     
  6. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    The SL-1200 definitely has a lot of potential. I had one with a re-wired arm & upgraded interconnects, and the stock arm was internally and externally dampened; it was very very good.

    A lot of it comes down to what kind of presentation you prefer.
     
  7. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    There are drop-in replacement boards available for Rega and SME arms. No soldering is involved with the SME, I'm not sure about the Rega.
     
  8. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    SME have very nice arms. Some are very, very pleased with AudioMods´ arms, which are improved Rega´s. Jelco also have some good arms.

    If You are pleased with how the 1200 basically performs, IMO a better arm could be the right move.
     
  9. theron d

    theron d Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baltimore MD
    What's wrong with the stock 1200 arm? Does anyone have frequency responses for the 1200 with various arms mounted? I'd like to see that...
     
    motorcitydave likes this.
  10. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    There's nothing wrong with it per se, but the tube does have a tendency to ring. Adding some heat-shrink rubber tubing on the outside significantly helps tame the resonances, and a KAB fluid dampener takes it to a higher level.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. ElizabethH

    ElizabethH Forum Resident

    Location:
    SE Wisconsin,USA
    No the table you are using is about on level with the phono used.
    If you bought a better TT, kept your current cart and used the same electronics you would not notice any difference.

    I have to agree with the comments whcih state the Tecnics arm is what is holding back the Technics TT you now own.
    The other stuff is the phono stage in your Marantz is good, bot not high end enough to better the sound from a better turntable.

    Personally i would spend the money you want to throw away on a top fight used stand alone phono preamp box.
     
    Tremaindous and action pact like this.
  12. dogpile

    dogpile Generation X record spinner.

    Location:
    YYZ - Canada
    The 1200 MK2 is essentially a "vintage" table since it has been around for decades.

    FWIW, the stock arm does a good job (VTA), however, the wiring should be upgraded...the tin plated copper just doesn't cut it.

    The bearing upgrade alone transformed my table and is recommended.
     
    motorcitydave likes this.
  13. dirtymac

    dirtymac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Exile, MN
    Consider upgrading the wiring and getting the fluid damper for your 1200. Those things alone should make a very noticeable improvement. If you like the looks of the 1200, the convenience of easily switching out carts/headshells and the ease of adjusting VTA, this is a route you should strongly consider. http://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

    If those things are not that important to you, I'd think a VPI traveler would be a good bet.

    I have had several nice vintage turntables (including Thorens and Dual) and own an upgraded Technics 1210M5G. IME they perform at a similar level. What preference one has comes down to system matching and what one likes in the way of sound, looks and ease of use.
     
  14. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Change the arm if you will, upgrade the mat...Rega RB300, 301...Funk Firm Achromat. Then a Timestep speed control....
     
    Nielsoe likes this.
  15. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    The advantage of the 1200 is the plethora of options available: arms, bearings, platters, power supplies, regulator mods, etc. which you can implement at your leisure. In this one, I also have a Mike New bearing, which is as much a game changer as the Trans-Fi arm and getting my carts re-tipped by SoundSmith. I'm only half way done with the planned upgrades; but, to say my boat has been rocked is an extreme understatement.


    [​IMG]
     
    theron d likes this.
  16. Rkellner

    Rkellner Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntington, NY
    Oh man, this looks like an awesome Frankenstein Technics table. What exactly did you do to it? Price of all of this?
     
  17. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    If you're referring to my table, I really didn't do all that much.

    Done:

    SL-1200MK2 - well used / $150 off the auction site years ago
    Origin Live armboard (designed for Rega arms; but, works a treat here) - $99
    Trans-Fi T3 Pro Terminator air bearing linear tracking tonearm with SME coupling (I like being able to swap carts/headshells) - $1250
    Mike New Audio bearing - $590
    TTWeights Classic 454g record weight - $75

    To Do:

    Isonoe footers set of 4 - $175
    Mike New ETP platter - $925
    Paul Hynes SR7-EHD power supply and light regulator mods - $??
     
  18. jlc76

    jlc76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX, U.S.A.
    Did you upgrade the wiring on your M5G? I own one and opted to spend those upgrade dollars on the KAB fluid damper. I'm wondering what kind of results a tonearm rewire and maybe some heat shrink to the tonearm would do. I'm not unhappy with the sound now but I'm always open to improvements.
     
  19. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    My SL1200 MK2 is box stock and sounds beautiful!
     
  20. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    [​IMG]

    The 1200M3D (identical to the MK2 in every way apart from a quartz lock "button" instead of center detent on the pitch slider) to the right is box stock with the exception of an added KAB fluid damper. If this were my only table I would be happy, quite happy. Nevertheless, it's very apparent going back and forth between the two that the "modded" 1200 is quieter still, more "fluid" and allows the extraction of more detail using the same cartridge and headshell. The KAB fluid damper tightened up the sound of the stock arm and and is certainly worthwhile, IMO. Although, I haven't done it yet, I do believe a Cardas arm rewire would allow more detail to come through.
     
  21. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    The question remains: what motivated you to go this route vs. spending $2000-$3000 on something else?
     
  22. dirtymac

    dirtymac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Exile, MN
    I did not . The wiring (OFC) is already superior to the tin-plated wire of other 1200 models. Kevin at KABUSA indicated to me that an upgrade to Cardas might have a subtle effect on sound quality.
     
    56GoldTop likes this.
  23. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    Motivation? The dreaded forum curse, of course! I kept reading about guys who were getting SP-10MK2 (or better) performance and sound out of their 1200s. In my humble opinion, they were not wrong. I spent a lot of time on the Lenco forums watching amazing transformations. I was also watching what guys like Rolf Kelch were doing with Thorens decks and what others were doing with the Garrard 401s, 301s. I already had several 1200s; so, it just made sense. I'd still like to get an idler one day and go crazy with that, too.
     
    action pact likes this.
  24. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I'd love to hear it one day.
     
    56GoldTop likes this.
  25. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    Bring some tunes. I know you got 'em. :agree:
     
    action pact likes this.
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