Advantages of Upgrading Technics SL1200 MKII to something vintage?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Rkellner, Jun 16, 2014.

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  1. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    This is the review where the Benz Micro is used on the stock arm:
    http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_e.html

    I love this bit here:

    The actual reason for the massive adoption of belt drive, of course, is that it allowed low-key cottage-industry types to enter the turntable market without investing in the research and tooling required to make a really good direct drive: had any of the presently-established European and American high-end turntable manufacturers tried to design a top-end DD model in the late seventies or early eighties they would have gone belly up in no time through lack of funding. No, they settled for belt drive, and flaunted it with the aid of the local audio press.
     
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  2. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Cool, sounds good. :cool:
     
  3. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    That's heresy! :realmad:

    Actually, that's pretty cool. If it works, why argue with it. :)
     
  4. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Interesting...
     
  5. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    I think folks underestimate the quality of the arm and the groupthink is to replace it with something else.
     
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  6. Bolero

    Bolero Senior Member

    Location:
    North America
    this weekend I'm going to pull the Boheme off my Empire & try it on the 1200
     
  7. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    I'm
    I'm with you...my 1200mk2 is staying stock. I use a vintage Shure V15III with a Jico SAS stylus and I am very pleased with the way it performs.
     
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  8. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Lot of pressure to "upgrade" this deck. Let's see some before/after recordings from these folks advocating butchering this well sorted out deck. I'll take an after recording so I can compare to my stock rig!
     
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  9. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    I dunno, I can only speak for the M5G model. I rap pretty hard on the tonearm and I don't get any ringing or thumping through the speakers...
     
  10. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    You know, I've often referred to this (so stop me if you've heard this before); but, Technics themselves, pretty much promoted the use of different arms having issued several of their tables in armless versions. An SME armboard was an option on more than one of their tables. I'm not even talking about the SP series:

    SL-150 (an armless SL-1500)
    SL-150MK2 (an armless SL-1500MK2 sans suspension and with a super thick wooden armboard)
    SL-120 (an armless SL-1200MK1)
    SL-120MK2 (an armless SL-1200MK2)

    Technics also had their own line of arms (EPA series). These are quite pricey when they do show up on auction; titanium nitride arm wands and all.

    Considering the separate psu's for their SP series, it not a stretch to think about upgrading that part of a Technics table, either. That they built a turntable that can be easily lived with as is, I consider to be a testament to the brand that was (and might just become again). However, they knew you could go farther. As another example, the 1300/1400/1500MK2 series all have heavier and balanced platters (you can see the drilling underneath). The SL-M* series also has balanced platters and at least the SL-M2 and the SL-M3 came with titanium nitride arms (aside from the snazzier veneer). Last, I'll mention the SP-10MK3... good lawd!!! ...the specs on that thing is reeeediculous. To equal that, you need a VPI Classic Direct, Kodo The Beat or something else along those lines.

    I've never felt any pressure to upgrade the deck. It's just nice to know it can be done and will yield results.
     
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  11. Nielsoe

    Nielsoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aalborg, Denmark
    Ok John. We stand corrected. The stock 1210 can't be bettered. Keep it as it is.
     
  12. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    Perhaps we're all not using the best words to describe things. Instead of saying "upgrading", maybe we should be saying "modifying". Upgrading seems to give the connotation that what was there to begin with isn't sufficient, or worse, crap, which is not the case with the 1200MK2. Technics has produced some crap tables. (I finally got rid of my SL-J2. That turntable was plastic crap, for sure. Incidentally, it was very easy to use and my wife loved it.) It doesn't take me to say that the 1200MK2 is a solid table that many "audiophile" companies liberally took pot shots at; little wonder why. Does the stock arm have some resonance? Measurements say it does. However, I forgot which SME arm was measured; but, it was shown to have it's own resonance characteristic, as well, just different that the Techy. Better arm wiring is better arm wiring, in my opinion. But, when you sell as many TT's (and gear) as Technics did/does, folks not getting a piece of that pie are going to be pissed off. It's just human nature, sadly. There's room for all. And, my wish list of tables includes idlers, rim drives, direct drives and yes, a belt drive here and there. I'm not as biased as some might think. :)
     
  13. Nielsoe

    Nielsoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aalborg, Denmark
    The 1210 in stock form is a class act and I can easily see why people are happy with it. BUT it can be bettered significantly without too much hassle. The cost is perhaps another matter but it's worth it. I know this simply because I went (pretty much) all the way and I listen to it almost every day. My ears don't lie nor do I. It could be argued that it's a matter of taste but you could say that about anything...
     
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  14. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    I'd have to agree with that. That has been my experience.

    On cost, I'd have to say a fully modded 1200 is still far cheaper (by thousands) than a comparative new production direct drive of the same caliber. (I do not mean cheap knock-offs.)
     
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  15. eb2jim

    eb2jim Forum Resident

    No matter what you do, you'll always run into something else that will turn your head. When you find a low level garage sale machine that sounds as good or better then you will have found the true audio nirvana. And it will happen. So go for it! We only go around once.
     
  16. mikeburns

    mikeburns Forum Resident

    Still going to upgrade my tonearm, have heard nothing but great things by folks that have upgraded this piece. Wish I had a decent soundcard so I coudl do a before and after, might try to get one together before I purchase the arm so I can do it and hopefully hear a difference.

    I think a lot of the difference is likely to be heard and higher SPL where resonance will play a big part and be amplified more.

    It is also fairly common knowledge that one of the flaws of the 1200 arm is its resonant frequency as pointed out bu 56goldtop.

    This is an interesting discussion mind you and I am all for serious discussion around the worthiness of 1200 modifications. The 1200 in stock form is a terrific deck and it seems that the sky is the limits on where you can take depending on how deep your pockets are.
     
  17. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Great things are likely what you're going to read from audiophiles who post on forums who are addicted to upgrading their hi-fi gear and looking for support for their decision. I've seen cases where negative comments about a product are deleted or the folks making those comments get excoriated or told their system is not revealing enough or something must be awry with the setup.

    Making before/after recordings would be a great idea if you are open minded and prepared to undo the modification and send back the unused product. Relying on your memory on judging whether something is truly a worthwhile improvement or just different can get you possibly moving away from the strength of the product you're modifying.

    The recordings could also be helpful in testing the hypothesis of higher SPL's on the stock tonearm. Make one with the volume low and one high and compare.
     
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