Album Showdown: Like a Prayer vs. Rhythm Nation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JohnnyQuest, Nov 30, 2014.

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  1. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

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    Two Pop masterpieces of 1989...

    Like a Prayer


    • World: 15,000,000
    • US: 5,000,000

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    Singles from Like a Prayer
    1. "Like a Prayer" (#1)
      Released: March 3, 1989
    2. "Express Yourself" (#2)
      Released: May 9, 1989
    3. "Cherish" (#2)
      Released: August 1, 1989
    4. "Oh Father" (#20)
      Released: October 24, 1989
    5. "Dear Jessie"
      Released: December 10, 1989
    6. "Keep It Together" (#8)
      Released: January 30, 1990

    Like a Prayer received critical acclaim upon its release. Madonna was commended for her autobiographical songwriting, as well as her improved vocals. J. D. Considine in an April 1989 review in Rolling Stone felt that her fame up to that point had been built more on "image than artistry", but that with Like a Prayer Madonna was asking, successfully, to be taken seriously, and that the album is "as close to art as pop music gets ... proof not only that Madonna should be taken seriously as an artist but that hers is one of the most compelling voices of the Eighties." Considine also said the tracks "are stunning in their breadth and achievement."Lloyd Bradley of Q said, "musically it's varied, unexpected and far from instantly accessible; lyrically, it's moving, intelligent and candid." Robert Christgau awarded the album a B+. He felt that "the declaration of filial independence and the recommendation of romantic independence [are] challenging, thrilling—and they'll get more thrilling."

    Stephen Thomas Erlewine from Allmusic stated that Like a Prayer is Madonna's "most explicit attempt at a major artistic statement"; and that though she is trying to be "serious" Madonna delivers a range of well-written pop songs, making the album her "best and most consistent." Sal Cinquemani in Slant Magazine described the album as "a collection of pop confections layered with live instrumentation, sophisticated arrangements, deeply felt lyrics, and a stronger, more assured vocal." The review concluded by declaring Like a Prayer "one of the quintessential pop albums of all time. Peter Piatkowski from Yahoo! declared it "Madonna's most accomplished and ambitious album of her career", writing that "every song works—there is no filler and she performs beautifully."

    Nicholas Fonseca from Entertainment Weekly stated that Like a Prayer is "an official turning point" of Madonna's career, which earned her "a long-awaited, substantive dose of critical acclaim." Mark Savage from BBC noted that the album's release "marks the moment when critics first begin to describe Madonna as an artist, rather than a mere pop singer." Glen Levy from Time stated: "Madonna has always been a keen student of pop-culture history, and her creative powers were probably at their peak in the late 1980s on the album Like a Prayer." Hadley Freeman from The Guardian felt that Like a Prayer shaped "pop stars, pop music, music videos, love, sex and the 80s were and should be." Like a Prayer "defiantly grabbed Christian language and imagery", according to Jon Pareles of The New York Times.


    According to the list of "All-TIME 100 Albums" by Time magazine's critics, Like a Prayer is one of the 100 greatest and most influential musical compilations since 1954. In 2003, Rolling Stone magazine named it the 237th greatest album of all time. Apart from that the album was also featured in the "Women Who Rock" list made in 2012, at number 18. Like a Prayer is also featured in the book 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die. In 2006, Q magazine placed the album at number 14 in its list of "40 Best Albums of the '80s".[51] In 2005, a poll of half million people on British television network Channel 4 placed Like a Prayer at number eight on list of "The 100 Greatest Albums in Music History". In 2012, Slant Magazine listed the album at number 20 on its list of "Best Albums of the 1980s", saying: "By the late '80s, Madonna was already one of the biggest pop stars of all time, but with Like a Prayer, she became one of the most important."



    Following the success of Like a Prayer, Madonna was named as the "Artist of the Decade" by many newspaper and magazine polls. MTV Networks honored her the special trophy for "Artist of the Decade: Mega Artist" based on a polls by MTV viewers. The honor eventually led to a rivalry between Madonna and Michael Jackson. Author John Semonche explained in his book Censoring sex that with True Blue and Like a Prayer, Madonna pushed the envelope of what could be shown on television, which resulted in increase of her popularity.
    Madonna tried to experiment with different forms and styles with the videos and in the process constructed a new set of image and identity. The lead single from the album, "Like a Prayer", was featured in a television advertisement for soft drink manufacturer Pepsi, as a part of Madonna's endorsement deal with the company.[40] The video "set a media circus in motion, stirring up just those issues of sexuality and religiosity that Madonna wanted to bring up."In response to the controversial music video, the Vatican condemned the video. Critics accused it of sacrilege and heresy. Religious groups sought to ban the commercial and boycott Pepsi products. Pepsi revoked the commercial and canceled her sponsorship contract. However, she was allowed to retain her fee of five million dollars. Madonna commented, "Art should be controversial, and that's all there is to it."[9] It was said that the video for "Like a Prayer" could be "read as an indictment of a white male patriarchal Christianity in the name of what has happened to 'white' women and to Black men." The iconic images have "proven to be some of the most striking, unforgettable images in music video history and serve only to further the clip's condemnation of racial profiling and religious guilt."




    Vs.


    Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation 1814


    • World: 14,000,000

    • US: 8,500,000

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    Singles from Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation 1814
    1. "Miss You Much" (#1)
      Released: August 22, 1989
    2. "Rhythm Nation" (#2)
      Released: October 24, 1989
    3. "Escapade" (#1)
      Released: January 8, 1990
    4. "Alright" (#4)
      Released: March 3, 1990
    5. "Come Back to Me" (#2)
      Released: June 18, 1990
    6. "Black Cat" (#1)
      Released: August 28, 1990
    7. "Love Will Never Do (Without You)" (#1)
      Released: November 5, 1990
    8. "State of the World"
      Released: February 6, 1991


    The album received generally positive reviews, with a mixed reaction to Jackson's social and political themes. Dennis Hunt of Los Angeles Times called it "intriguing" and diverse, ranging from "social commentary to lusty, sensual tunes, from dance music to songs laced with jazz and Brazilian textures." Andy Ellis-Widders of Keyboard considered it "a powerful statement on racial integration, social accountability, and personal integrity." Steve Morse of The Boston Globe compared its success to that of Aerosmith and Billy Joel, declaring it "a dance record with a ruthlessly frank social conscience that addresses drugs, homelessness, illiteracy and teen runaways. She's reached far beyond dance music's fluffy image to unite even serious rockers and rappers who usually look the other way." Jon Pareles compared the concept album to Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon (1973) and Guns N' Roses Appetite for Destruction (1987), referring to it as "a cause without a rebellion." However, Pareles commended its musicality and vocals, stating, "The tone of the music is airless, sealing out imprecision and reveling in crisp, machine-generated rhythms; Ms. Jackson's piping voice, layered upon itself in punchy unisons or lavish harmonies, never cracks or falters."Robert Christgau wrote in his review for The Village Voice, "Her voice is as unequal to her vaguely admonitory politics as it was to her declaration of sexual availability, but the music is the message."


    Vince Aletti of Rolling Stone likened Jackson's themes to a politician, "abandoning the narrow 'I' for the universal 'we' and inviting us to do the same." Aletti complimented Jackson's balance of "despair with optimism, anger with hope," incorporated within its theme of social progress. Michael Snyder considered it a worthy successor to Jackson's previous album,
    Control, adding "a little sociopolitical substance" as she "bounces between the two extremes of romance and generalized, politically correct topicality." Eric Henderson of Slant Magazine declared the album a "masterpiece."Henderson also praised its diversity, stating: "She was more credibly feminine, more crucially masculine, more viably adult, more believably childlike. This was, of course, critical to a project in which Janet assumed the role of mouthpiece for a nationless, multicultural utopia." Though referring to Jackson's voice as "wafer-thin", Alex Henderson of AllMusic applauded Jackson's spirit and enthusiasm, praising its numerous "gems." Henderson regarded it "an even higher artistic plateau" than her prior album, adding, "For those purchasing their first Janet Jackson release, Rhythm Nation would be an even wiser investment than Control—and that's saying a lot."

    Rhythm Nation 1814 became the best-selling album of 1990 and made history as the only album to generate seven top-five hits on the Billboard Hot 100. It is also the only album to achieve number one hits in three separate calendar years; "Miss You Much" in 1989, "Escapade" and "Black Cat" in 1990, and "Love Will Never Do (Without You)" in 1991.Glenn Gamboa of Newsday regarded it to have "changed the way radio sounded and MTV looked."Charles Whitaker considered the album to create modern dance music, using various "kinetic, electronic sounds." Pitchfork declared it the most current album of its era, "given its mixture of conceptual ambition and immediate-thrill pop."Entertainment Weekly stated, "Rhythm Nation has barely aged—it sounds as rich and vital as it did when it was first released, and stylistically as contemporary as anything on the Billboard charts." Joseph Vogel commented, "Twenty-five years later, those songs still pop with passion and energy [...] it’s still hard to listen and not want to join the movement."


    Rolling Stone observed Jackson's "Rhythm Nation" video to "set the template for hundreds of videos to come in the Nineties and aughts." Its popularity was declared "its own pop cultural phenomenon," as it became "legendary," "groundbreaking," and "instantly recognizable." Mike Weaver added, "Janet Jackson and her crew's innovative, one-of-a-kind, funk-and-groove choreography was unlike anything seen in the history of pop music."[98] Jackson's "Rhythm Nation" outfit set global fashion trends, later being abducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame along with the song's lyrics. Beyoncé stated, "I used to dress up like her. [...] I had the lipstick, had the hair — even had some leather boots." Jennifer Love Hewitt commented, "after I saw Janet Jackson's "Rhythm Nation" video, I went and cut it off and got a perm and had like three-inch bangs sticking out from my forehead." Artists such as Cheryl Cole and Rihanna have also paid homage to the outfit. The headset microphone was notably brought to prominence by Jackson throughout the Control and Rhythm Nation eras. Entertainers such as Will Ferrell,Jennifer Aniston, Alex Wagner, Pink, Liz Phair, and Thunderheist have referred to it as the "Janet Jackson headset mic" or headpiece.

    Following the album's success, Jackson "ended the decade as a massive global superstar." Stan Hawkins stated the album "helped secure Jackson a position on par with Madonna." Sal Cinquemani noted her popularity to eclipse Michael Jackson's, "as she would continue to do for more than a decade." The success of the album has been considered to break racial boundaries in the recording industry. Joseph Vogel stated, "Just seven years earlier, black artists couldn’t get on MTV; FM radio was dominated by album-oriented (white) rock; and the music industry was largely segregated by genre. Now a black woman was at the helm of a new pop-cultural “nation,” preaching liberation through music and dance, while calling on her audience to keep up the struggle."Recalling Jackson's diverse appeal among youth, Vogel commented: "Janet didn’t have the vocal prowess of Whitney Houston, or the poetic subtlety of Kate Bush; she didn’t have Annie Lennox’s penchant for the avant-garde or Madonna’s predilection for shock. But none of these artists achieved the cross-racial impact (particularly on youth culture) of Janet. And none of them had an album like Rhythm Nation 1814."


    Rhythm Nation 1814 pioneered several musical trends. Kyle Anderson stated, "The ebullient smash single 'Escapade' sounds like a building block for the turn-of-the-century teen pop craze. Any pop star who has borrowed the swagger and crunch from hair metal—Rihanna, Pink, Christina Aguilera—owes something to 'Black Cat.' Every Gwen Stefani song is essentially 'Miss You Much.' And title track 'Rhythm Nation' remains an incredibly kinetic workout that provided the DNA for everything from Lady Gaga’s 'Paparazzi' to the bulk of Beyoncé’s 4." The single edit and music video for "Alright" featuring Heavy D made Jackson the first pop artist to collaborate with a rapper, setting the trend for future pop and hip-hop collaborations and remixes. "Black Cat" was observed to influence pop artists transitioning into pop-rock. Brian McCollum noted the album to contain early forms of "aggressive electro pop." It has also set a trend for pop albums to include various spoken interludes.

    Britney Spears declared it among her favorite albums, citing it as the inspiration for her eighth album, Britney Jean. The album has been considered a predecessor to Lady Gaga's Born This Way due to its usage of industrial music and similar lyrical themes. It has also been observed to influence several songs on Michael Jackson's Dangerous and HIStory albums. Of Jackson's European influence, Jam stated, "[it influenced] a lot of music I heard, particularly coming out of Sweden... Robyn talks all the time about the influence Janet Jackson records had on everybody there, sonically and style-wise. A lot of the music coming from Europe definitely embraced a lot of that sound and the sonic textures." Stuart Price described "‘Rhythm Nation’-esque qualities" while producing Kylie Minogue's Aphrodite. Jamie Lidell called its vocals and instrumentation the inspiration for his self-titled fifth album. Bok Bok called it an influence to artists such as Kelela, stating, "it's almost like fusion jazz in the way that it's wrong, but it's still totally pop music." Yoo Young-jin based productions for Girls' Generation and TVXQ on the album's title track. Martin Falck of The Knife declared it his favorite album. Grimes' Visions was also thought to emulate the album.Anastacia called it her first and only musical purchase. Albums by Louise Nurding and Karyn White have also emulated the record. Jackson's albums, particularly Rhythm Nation 1814, have gained a notable following within indie rock and alternative music. Sleigh Bells cited it as the inspiration for Bitter Rivals, with lead vocalist Alexis Krauss stating, "I was obsessing with the singing and the melodies of Rhythm Nation 1814. Amy Lee of Evanescence and Lzzy Hale of Halestorm have also praised the album. It has also influenced Lissie, A Sunny Day in Glasgow, and St. Vincent, who praised Jackson's vocal arrangements. Due to Jackson's frequent usage of industrial rhythms, Trent Reznor had stated mainstream industrial music "sounds like a Janet Jackson record.


    The album earned Grammy Award nominations for "Best Female R&B Vocal Performance" and "Best Rhythm & Blues Song" for "Miss You Much", and "Best Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalist" and "Best Long Form Music Video" for "Rhythm Nation", winning the latter award. Jackson was also nominated for "Producer of the Year, Non-Classical", becoming the first woman to be nominated for the award. The following year, Jackson received nominations for "Best Female Rock Vocal Performance" for "Black Cat," in addition to "Best Rhythm & Blues Song" and "Best R&B Vocal Performance, Female" for "Alright." Jackson also received two MTV Music Video Award nominations for "Best Dance Video" and "Best Choreography" for "Rhythm Nation", winning the latter. She also received the MTV Video Vanguard Award, regarded as MTV's highest honor. The album has been included among Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time, in addition to the United Kingdom's 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die.
     
  2. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    Did you author that entire post or did you cut and paste it without giving proper credit?
     
  3. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Paradise
    It's pretty obvious that it's copy & pasted from Wikipedia.
     
  4. Bobby Morrow

    Bobby Morrow Senior Member

    Like A Prayer I've ultimately enjoyed more over the last 25 years. OK, it's not perfect as it has that hideous duet with Prince on it. In Janet's case, Rhythm Nation, like pretty much every album she's ever done, is much too long and cluttered up with those stupid interludes that irritate from the second play onwards.

    So, LAP is ultimately better. But it's not as good as True Blue!
     
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  5. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    LAP by a small margin. Both great albums, though.
     
  6. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
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    Madonna. Both very good albums but "LAP" wins for me...
     
  7. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Paradise
    I hate those stupid spoken interludes! :cussing:It ruins the whole flow of that album. Luckily, in this day and age they can be deleted and left off of the playlist. :)
    Like a Prayer is one of my least favorite Madonna albums. It was a big disappointment. My expectations for that album were through the roof. (from everything I've read online about it)
    It just didn't meet my expectations and I honestly feel like it was a weak compared to True Blue. (even Like a Virgin)
    As for Rhythm Nation, from everything I've read and heard I'll have to say it's more influential and innovative. So it will receive my vote. :) I had no idea how big it was and how many people the music and videos influenced.
     
  8. Bobby Morrow

    Bobby Morrow Senior Member

    Yes, looking at the sales figures for RN and the list of singles, it did fantastically well. You just don't get multi-million selling albums with a string of smash hit singles anymore, do you?

    LAP is a grower. I bought it when it came out and felt similarly let down. It's charms do reveal themselves over time.
     
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  9. paulewalnutz

    paulewalnutz Forum Resident

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    RN for me in a slam dunk. I never cared for Madonna after her debut album.
     
  10. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

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    Paradise
    It's surprising to see that RN spawned 7 top 10 hits. To be honest I would've been sick as hell to hear her that much on the radio back in the day. Lol
    What's a bigger shocker is that it sold more than LAP in the US. :wtf: I'll give LAP more listens as time goes on but it was such a heartbreaking letdown. (considering how much I adored True Blue and Like a Virgin)
     
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  11. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

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    There's still a few people that care for those two artists. :p
    I'm anxiously anticipating Madonna's next album. As for Janet I think I'm more fascinated in the whole nipplegate backlash/blacklisting than I am of her actual music.
    Her unfortunate career ending publicity stunt made me interested in checking out her body of work. (Strange,I know)
     
  12. Bobby Morrow

    Bobby Morrow Senior Member

    Tiffany was infinitely better!
     
  13. Bobby Morrow

    Bobby Morrow Senior Member

    There were big albums like this quite often. You'd think that once the LP had been out for months and sold so well, there's no way 5 or 6 singles would chart so high and sell millions. Surely everyone who liked JJ had the album by then!?

    I think remixes and non-album B sides kept the singles charting. The 80s was the decade of the 12" single. Great days, really.
     
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  14. Bobby Morrow

    Bobby Morrow Senior Member

    Considering how often Janet had her, ahem, 'charms' out in videos and pictures, it's a wonder anyone was shocked when she did the same in front of millions of people on TV!
     
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  15. Sill Nyro

    Sill Nyro Forum Resident

    True Blue better than Like a Prayer? Not with these horrendous filler tracks: "Love Makes the World Go Round," "Where's the Party," "White Heat," and "Jimmy Jimmy". One of my least favorite Madonna albums. To each his own, I suppose.

    --

    Anyway, Rhythm Nation 1814 wins this for me. It's more cohesive, and the music is just better in my opinion. That era was amazing. I think it's her best album.
     
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  16. paulewalnutz

    paulewalnutz Forum Resident

    Location:
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    I still can't get how she took all the heat for "nipplegate" while Justin Timberlake walked away unscathed. Janet's work with Jam & Lewis was great.
     
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  17. Folknik

    Folknik Forum Resident

    Like a Prayer all the way. Rhythm Nation to me is a desultory mess and an epic fail as a concept album. She attempts to be socially conscious on some songs, but can't stick to the concept enough to leave out the fluff. "Get the point? OK, let's dance." If a prog band had made an album like this, the critics would have dismissed it as "pretentious and self-indulgent." Since it's not the type of thing we would expect from a dance-pop artist, it was hailed as "innovative."
     
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  18. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
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    If only I was born in the 70's and lived through the 80's. :sigh: I truly missed out.


    But "Jimmy Jimmy" is my all time favorite Madonna song! :cussing: Even her "filler songs" hold up well against Janet's number one hits.
    I honestly feel like Rhythm Nation is a much better album than LAP but I can't say the same for True Blue. That album is flawless.:love:


    Yes it's very unfortunate since they both set that up together. It only backfired on Janet. Justin got with away with it unscathed and soon became a even bigger Pop Star. :sigh:


    Why is it hailed as such an introspective/innovative pop masterpiece if it's inconsistent and doesn't follow the concept?
     
  19. Apollo C. Vermouth

    Apollo C. Vermouth Forum Resident

    Hands down...Rhythm Nation. Not even a second thought. I like Madonna's first 3 albums and 'Ray Of Light'. Have the first 3 on vinyl and Ray on CD. Great albums...but Rhythm Nation blows away any Madonna album. It's a lot more diverse than Like A Prayer. Black Cat being one of my favorite songs from Janet. Not even a contest IMHO.
     
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  20. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

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    I agree that it blows many Madonna albums away but Bedtime Stories sh*ts all over it. :tiphat: That is the epitome of an R&B masterpiece.
    That's Madonna outdoing Janet in something she has already perfected.
     
  21. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
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    No - no! No - you're joking, right? You can't be serious - can you? :help:
     
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  22. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

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    :kilroy: I am. It's so damn catchy. Jimmy Jimmy Ahhhhhhhh Jimmy Jimmay!
    What's so bad about it? (besides the repetition)
     
  23. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I don't think "Jimmy Jimmy" is BAD, per se - I just think it's exceptionally, completely, wholly unmemorable. It's a pop song that sounds like it was written in about 12 seconds and it feels like the definition of "album filler" to me.

    If you really love it, that's cool - I just can think of literally dozens of other Madonna songs I think are much better!

    Then again, you're the guy who thinks "Never Let Me Down" is Bowie's peak, IIRC, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything you say! :D
     
  24. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
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    :biglaugh: It's between that album and Station to Station. You know you have one hell of an album when you're "filler" songs standout as much as your lead singles.
    Another one of my favorites is...



    I would love to know what you think of it. :)
     
  25. motownboy

    motownboy Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington State
    Another less than thoughtful thread be the OP.
     
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