Am I so totally out of it? The movie HOSTEL. I really hated it..

if you'll read what i wrote, you'll see that i didn't say the three were comparable or that certain movie watchers smell bad (necessarily). i did say that all people make judgements about other people based on many different criteria and signals, and gave those as some examples.

i'm really not trying to offend anyone, and i'm sorry that what i wrote caused you to type all those little frowny faces, but for me the fact that a person habitually chooses to watch other people being tortured for entertainment indicates that the person has some serious issues that make him or her the kind of person i would rather not associate with, given the choice.

others may feel differently, which is ok with me.

 

Actually, I don't think Hostel is more gruesome than "A fistful of dollars", which has a much higher body count. Maybe for some, killing somebody quickly is more acceptable, but I wouldn't dare to judge other people by the movies they watch, the clothes they wear or the music they listen to.

 

Many here seem to have no problem whatsoever judging other people by the kind of music they listen to.

I have to agree with il pleut and others: if I went over to a friend's house and found him watching Saw or Hostel on DVD, I'd probably think long and hard before going back to that friend's house again. Call me judgmental if you must, but I believe that anyone who enjoys watching depictions of people being tortured has a screw loose somewhere in their head.

 

I guess for all of us there's somebody we don't want to be around, or we don't want our children to date or hang out with.

 

The funny thing here is I agree with what you say, but I must be a hypocrite, as I watched the SAW and Hostel movies.

Did I go out of my way or pay money to watch them. NO. My friend lent me his discs, and I was very wary of watching at first. I didn't want to get so wierded out by them that I would feel funny or scared.

I watched, and for some reason saw the movies as so over the top that they were "funny" (not in a laugh out loud way), in a way that "YEAH RIGHT" that could happen - give me a break. It was so un-real as to be comical.

On the other hand movies like "Zodiac", which may not be as over the top, but based on real life events, scared the you now what out of me.. realizing that it really occurred and was akin to the stuff going on in SAW or HOSTEL (sick demented killers).

I am not a sicko, just a normal guy making his way through life, with a nice wife and child, good job, etc. So just because I watched SAW or HOSTEL you would never consider being my friend??

 

Actually Il Pleut, they were just rolly eyes faces because I was a bit put off by your statements. I wouldn't use a frowny face at you because I'm not mad at you nor have I ever been angry at anyone here.

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree on this. I admit that I'm enjoying this discussion as it's interesting to me to see how people differ in their views on things.

I can only say that, for myself, I've always had a healthy relationship with the women in my life, I deeply love the people who are close to me, I've never been to jail, I have a full time job. I enjoy Ingmar Bergman, Kurosawa and Fassbinder films as much as low brow horror. And I love classic British and Russian literature in addition to pulpy fiction. What I'm trying to say is that I know in my heart of hearts that I'm basically a decent person. I have to believe that out of the millions of people who have seen Hostel and other films of their ilk, and (shock horror!) even enjoyed those films there are others who are similarly well adjusted people and not social deviants.

 

Rael,Mike T, you could really be my friends!

 

.......Awwww-shucks. Time for a group hug. Hey....wait a minute! What's that you're holding? A chainsaw???!!!!!

 

I wasn't referring so much to people, like you, who seem to have watched the movies on a whim, more to people who are aficionados of this genre. With regard to these movies, I'm guilty of something that I often disparage in others when it comes to discussions of music - I haven't even watched them in order to confirm my suspicions about them. As I stated a few pages back, I saw the preview for Saw at the movies several years ago, and that was all I needed to see. The preview alone was so sadistic and sick that I felt no need to investigate further. Maybe I'm missing some redeeming humor or parody value that these movies have. But what I do know about them is so sickening that I'm not going to waste two hours of my life to find out.

 

absolutely. and i agree it is interesting, and hopefully friendly.

 

You are missing the premise of the story. The movie isn't just about gory torture.

Anyway, I still think you, and some others, are very wrong to judge even those who are enthusiasts of the genre. It's like judging a person based on their taste in music. You just can't do it. I mean, how many times have I proved you guys wrong?

I learned a long time ago that the best way to judge something is to watch, read, or listen to a substantial amount of something before you decide. As i've said before, the world is not a simple place.

 

Alright, then. I'll try to approach this with an open mind. Explain to me what you think it is about (besides gory torture), and if you do a good enough job to pique my curiosity, I'll rent it and watch it.

 

Of course not. It's also about gratuitous T&A.

 

It's actually about a sick man with a vendetta against a cop, so he traps some innocent people are offers them a way to escape if they jump through his hoops. Sure, it has gore. That's what type of genre it's in.

All i'm saying is that an intelligent person investigates things before passing judgment.

 

I don't recall any T&A in the movie.

 

I'm all about gratuitous T&A, too. However, as has been noted already in this thread, I feel no need to see the T&A hacked into bits with a chainsaw within five minutes of getting naked.

 

No one gets hacked up while naked, nor are there any sexual situations in SAW. Actually, most of the torture in SAW comes by way of booby traps and the fight for survival, not by the hands of the sicko. He's far away, monitoring everything via camera. Now, i've given away too much of the movie, so rent it!

Why are we once again fighting a culture war on this forum? It's not an election year yet!

 

I think the other posters are referring to the T&A in Hostel, not Saw.

Sort of like the people who watch the movie, huh?

Sorry, Grant, you still haven't told me anything the preview didn't tell me already. You're going to have to do better than that, like explain what insight into human nature the sicko teaches us, or something to that effect.

 

I'm curious to see Grant's response, but here's my own. They are about gory torture, as it's supposed to be shocking and scary. The legal determination of whether something is obscene asks whether it has any socially/artistically redeeming values and does it appeal to prurient interests. So the makers of porn, at least at some point, had to provide some simple story line to drape scenes of people doin' it over. My question is why bother? IT'S PORN! It's supposed to appeal to prurient interest, and who cares if it has some redeeming values? That's not why it exists. To my way of thinking, that's why these gory movies exist, to appeal to that curiosity in a lot of people to see these things, without having to experience these things. They may think it's funny, or scary or gross, but something drew them to watch it in the first place. I don't think it is something "wrong" about them, it's just a part of nature. To enjoy this type of entertainment, doesn't necessarily point to some deep psychological problem. They just like that kind of thrill. I think it is the small, small minority of people who concern you. People who find a sadistic thrill in what is happening to people on the screen, which I think is different than enjoying the thrill of scary movies. I think the people who concern you, are people that should concern you even if they never saw movies. I love the Beatles White Album (yeah, I went there, this thread has gone to long without their mention), but I didn't take away the same message that Charles Manson did. Just because Manson did, doesn't mean anything is wrong with the album, only that what Charlie brought to the table was screwed up.

I'm not saying you have to enjoy it. You can hate it. Nothing wrong with that. I thinking disparaging people who do like it (I'd have to re-read this thread again to see if you actually did this, so don't take it personally if you didn't ) is kind of insulting. People who disparage heavy metal fans as particular types of people, also miss the point. Heavy metal fans don't kill people because of the music they listen to. Sometimes, however, a psychotic individual who kills somebody, might also happen to like heavy metal. Did any of what I said make any sense? I'm tired, and rambly.

 

Oh yeah! I forgot what the thread was about! Frankly, I don't remember any T&A in Hostel. It's there, I just don't remember it.

Anyway, I like the movie because if it's twists in the plot.

Turkey!

But, that brings up the point that it's not real! It's fiction!

Aside from showing what lengths some people will go for revenge, it's just entertainment. If you are looking for some warm fuzzy, life-affirming qualities that reach further than trying to survive crazy circumstances, you are looking in the wrong place. And, think about this: these movies aren't usually even aimed at old guys like us, they're geared towards the teens and early twentysomethings. It's a date movie. It's a movie your friends can gather around and watch for something to do on a Friday night.

 

What you say makes a lot of sense. On the Beatles/Manson point, I'd agree that it's not the Beatles' fault that Manson listened to their record and then killed people, but, on the other hand, I can see how songs like "Piggies" and the various versions of "Revolution" could be interpreted to fit into Manson's pre-existing violent fantasies. I'd argue that the content of a film like Saw is like "Piggies" x 1,000 - there's all kinds of other facets to the White Album other than mentions of "piggies" and "revolution," but with these slasher films, on the other hand, I'm still waiting for someone to identify what purpose they serve other than the one that you quite accurately (I believe) identify: the atavistic need of some percentage of the population to watch scenes of torture and murder.

 

How will I respond? My response is simple: It's a freakin' Hollywood movie! That's all! It's not supposed to change the world! It's not supposed to make you and your kids feel warm and goey!

I also like reality shows. How does that make me a lesser person? There are a lot of judgmental types around here!

And, i'm wondering, how in the hell did this mutate from being a slasher movie to porn? It's not a porn movie!

 

What's "entertaining" about watching people being tortured? The Beatles provide entertainment. Grey's Anatomy provides entertainment. Jay Leno and David Letterman provide entertainment.

I'm not looking for warm, fuzzy, life-affirming qualities. I can appreciate a movie that has a tough or bleak moral or message. But I still would prefer to see some sort of moral or message.

I took my last date to a Wilco concert a couple of weeks ago. The last place I would take a date is to see one of these movies.

I prefer to do things like have friends over for dinner and talk to them instead of watching people get tortured to death. Call me crazy, I guess. I guess what's even more shocking than the fact that I don't watch slasher movies is the fact that I really don't watch any movies anymore. I haven't had a TV for many, many years. If you come over to my house on Friday night we're going to have to eat dinner, or play Scrabble, or talk to each other, or do something instead of stare at the idiot box, because there is no idiot box to stare at.

 

What do you do when you pass a fatal traffic accident. Be honest, fess up! Do you try your best to look away, or do you sneak a few peeks, hoping to see some mutilated bodies? We all do it. We don't really want to see human suffering, but we have a hidden desire to do so. With a movie, you want to see how they up the ante on the gore-o-meter. People aren't disturbed. You also would not be human if seeing such destruction didn't affect you emotionally or even physically. But, you are talking about a movie, with with make-up artists, costume designer, set designers, computer generated effects, writers, cameramen, directors, actors...it's fake! Most viewers accept that it's fake! No one gets hurt!