An Object Lesson -- Going Crazy Over LP Sibilance When It's the Record Itself

I get it all over Paul Simon's Graceland reissue from several years ago...it's nearly unlistenable.

 

Surely that must be a very rare situation.

 

OK, then, my cart/arm combo is not at fault.

 

That's what everyone believes...

 

Trying everything you can to discount my experience, right?

 

Just pointing out that everyone believes it has to be the fault of the LP because it couldn't possibly be that their inherantly mechanically imperfect hardware is simply incapable of tracking certain passages - regardless of how high quality or how well set-up it might (or might not) be.

 

Sometimes it really is the LP. That is what the OP is suggesting.

 

Those that are getting sibilances, that is not on the record, don´t have good enough styli.

 

That's why I said 9 of 10 times it's not the record. And the OP provided no real evidence that the issue was the record. But if it makes him happier...

 

Why ?

 

My old Ronette TX88 cart, crystal, NEVER HAD sibilance on any mono record.
Sibilance began when stereo was introduced. The vertical component of the stereo groove is a trouble maker. Vertical modulation left long time ago because it was very inferior to horizontal modulation. Stereo depended on that vertical modulation that works only good when modulations are minor. Sibilance just a too loud cutted record.

 

Do some listening.

 

The conspiracy theorist in me suggests (okay, screams to me) that hot records were produced in order to sell expensive cartridges with complex shapes, and even not all these can tame some records.

 

Could be, what a scam then.
I compare it with CD's: could be enjoyable but after the mid ninety's compression and clipping became the "norm", I want to know why !!!
Perhaps a scam too to sell SACD, but SACD virtually dead.
Can anybody tell me why the music industry serves the audiophile so bad ?

 

I'm the original author of this thread....

Maybe my Japanese pressing of Sgt. Peppers (stereo LP from the mid-80's) wasn't so far off after all! I was listening to the new Sgt. Peppers 6 disc deluxe set today and John's vocal on disc 1's "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite" was just as "ssss'ey" and sibilant as on the Japanese LP! And this was on a CD!!! I was listening flat on a high-end McIntosh Blu-Ray player (Model MVP-891), an MX-121, and a MC-275 vacuum tube amp through well balanced Chartwell LS-3/5A's from the late '70's.

If you have the new Sgt. Pepper's stereo CD, take a listen to "Mr. Kite" and confirm that you hear the very "ess-ey" vocals by John like I do.....

BTW: The 2017 mono CD doesn't suffer from the "over-ess'i'ness" like the stereo 2017 CD.

 

"Sibilance is just a too loud cutted record"? Some recordings are inherently sibilant and there is no level at which they can be cut to eliminate the sibilance.

A lot of people confuse sibilance with mistracking.

 

If the sibilance isn´t on the record, then it is mistracking.

 

Exactly, I have a Mono Ella and Louis which has lots of sibilance on various arms and cartridges, some are slightly better than others, but none get rid of it completely, this seems to indicate that it is either the recording, pressing , or both.

 

There are many notorious examples. Elton John's Greatest Hits, Peter Gabriel "So," pretty much anything by the Police or Sting. My latest and worst is Dave Matthews Band "Under the Table and Dreaming" first time vinyl issue--they should have worked harder on it because it sounds like a cat fight.

But in my younger days, Elton John's Greatest Hits is what sent me hunting for expensive cartridges and exotic tips, dismayed me regarding vinyl and caused me to treat a lot of excellent cartridges and styli as garbage when they weren't at all. But I probably spent $500 before it dawned on me. Ever since then, I've been trying to save others from repeating my costly mistake. Glad to see the OP doing the same! Thanks!!!

 

A few years ago, I was very obsessed with sibilance on my needledrops. That is the one defect that I hate. I was spending way too much time listening for it, instead of just listening to the music.
I don't even remember what I was listening to now. All I remember is that I thought the sibilance was so bad on this recording that I had decided to give up on vinyl. Then I realized that I was actually listening to a CD rip. That's what made me realize that I needed to quit worrying about it.

Sometimes, it is the particular cutting of a recording that is sibilant, and not the recording itself. I have a vintage copy of Beefheart's "Clear Spot" and I also have the Rhino reissue cut by Chris Bellman a few years ago. Even though the original is noisy as heck, I still prefer it to the new cut. The Bellman cut is very sibilant, as I find a lot of his work to be. No sibilance at all with the vintage cut.

 

Marcb, indeed. Sibilance can be caused by
1 The recording itself
2 Too loud cutted, especially the vertical component
3 Worn needle that hits the groovebottom
4 A very very bad installation of the cartridge.
In that order. Just summing it up, I get the impression responders do not read all the answers in this thread.

 

You (and most everyone here) are still mostly conflating sibilance with mistracking.

 

Same here, except that I use an AT440MLa (now with an MLb stylus). After switching to the AT440 years ago, the amount of sibilance I encountered on vinyl went down significantly.

 

Not me, option 1 is most important in my experience.
Then option 2, nothing to do about that.
Option 3: many people never renew the needle, they think an expensive needle last forever.
Option 4: too much fuzz about that, tolerance is wide and never causes sibilance the way forum members complain about.

I have said. If buying a record in the shop of my favorite artist/composer I expect it to be technically impeccable. If not I dont buy it, wait for a better pressing or a better mastering.
These day's however it is all about compression, clipping, too loud cut, tenth generation mastertapes even for CD, annoying reverberation added, tasteless remixing of multitrack recordings. Many reissues of fifties/early sixties stuff mistreated to death.
I dont let myself being pushed to the poorhouse just to try playing defective records with expensive snake oil needles.

 

Option 1 is Sibilance. This can be reduced or elimnated by the mastering engineer with assorted de-essing tools & techniques.
Option 2 is a Mistracking issue, not Sibilance
Option 3 is a Mistracking issue, not Sibilance
Option 4 is a Mistracking issue, not Sibilance

The vast majority of the time the issue is not #1.