An open letter to Noel Gallagher about working class rock

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by FlatulentDonkey, Apr 13, 2015.

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  1. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    The old class system doesn't actually exist anymore and despite the current focus on austerity in the UK (obviously a good thing) there simply isn't the divide in access to the aspects that made music a potential career move away back in the day arguably NG's career was the end of that and there was a drift towards that sort of access anyway as music became more important to people. Thatcher affectively finished the class system even it was partly through the creation of an underclass......

    The issue isn't class in the strictest sense. It is as you point out how the music industry has changed but beyond that it is a cultural vacuum and that's arguably to do with people in general not wanting to have a voice. It would seem to me and I am in agreement with NG here articulation of the voice of the people-and that's from any class has been lost in modern society.

    The point in general terms is correct but I think both of them are failing to grasp that both the importance of music and indeed the class system are somewhere different indeed totally different from where they view it.
     
  2. Django

    Django Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Noel isn't even working class anymore. He's a big, fat, balding capitalist, middle class illuminati rock star.
     
  3. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    Yeah NYC and LA rents are squeezing most folks out of the market...but a group of rich kids like the Strokes can put out a great album (or two). The same thing is happening to Austin and other cities, but I'm not sure that is the major problem. The major problem is the type of music that is popluar with that artistic group right now. Acoustic singer songwriters and mid tempo songs (ala the 70's) is what the indie kids are doing (that aren't into electronica). Eventually somebody is going to have a breakout rock record and everybody is going to shave thier beards, put away the suspenders, and start rocking out.
     
  4. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    He's gote some fine vintage Gibson ES models that he tours with! Nothing working class about that. No more chinese/korean Ephphones for Noel!
     
    bleachershane and Django like this.
  5. Django

    Django Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    And all that crap about Irish parents....they're from albert square.
     
  6. detroit muscle

    detroit muscle MIA

    Location:
    UK
    I presume the 'Longy' plays in a band that can't get signed. Maybe they should get a My Space page.
     
  7. o_O
    (And I think Noel is ethnically Irish.)
     
  8. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    I can't speak to the man's character with respect to pre and post "when he made it big" but don't most people aspire to something greater than what we've achieved? I realize the Cy Curnin voiced question of "How Much Is Enough" may come into play here but is it healthy to flog the man cos' he's made it when that is the goal of most in the industry? I couldn't say if fame and fortune has changed the man or was he a git before it all? Also, did the standards laid down for qualifying as big, fat and balding change or do I need to consider cosmetic surgery?
     
  9. PanaPlasma

    PanaPlasma Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium, Europe
    NME is like MTV, something from the past.
     
  10. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    But a working class hero is something to be.........
     
    footlooseman likes this.
  11. PanaPlasma

    PanaPlasma Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium, Europe
    I don't like his latest album, but like his sense of humour and critics on the current industry (Tidal idiots like Jay-Z & Beyoncé, heavily promoted by alternative press too!).

    Not so long ago he did a 30 min. interview for Studio Brussels, but it's sometimes hard to define when he's joking and/or serious.

    A pretty interesting interview for Noel/Liam and Oasis-fans.


    Working class?

    I think most current bands come from Music Conservatory or University, and most of us grew up in quite wealthy environments? Most kids these days "swim" literally in their toys and multimedia gadgets.

    Most cities have "rehearsal rooms/spaces" they can use for no money, they got funds from government to work with certain producers/recording studios,...

    They got loads more facilities than 20-30 years ago.

    Working class will return back the next generations imo, because most people now are living up the money they got from previous generations (parents/grandparents).

    Now with the raise of divorces, insane prices for houses,.... we'll be getting back to poverty in the near future + possible world war (too many folks on the planet to house, the "rich" western world vs the rest,...: these things can't last forever)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
    jamiesjamies likes this.
  12. Rasputin

    Rasputin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    What we need instead is upper class music! High browed music made by presidents, royalty & kings. Music that kicks hard downwards & mocks the working/lower class people with rebellious classical arrangements & conductors.

    There has to be room for this.
     
  13. Wright

    Wright Forum Resident

    Really? What about George Harrison, Ringo Starr, Bill Wyman, Charlie Watts, the Davies brothers, Eric Clapton, Rod Stewart, Jon Anderson...?
     
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  14. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
     
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  15. music and movies

    music and movies Forum Resident



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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
  16. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I think you've proved my point, to be honest and without getting into a bun fight I would suggest at least three or four of those are debatable by 1950's standards......when you consider what the UK produced from 1960-1975 it's not much of a list even if we take it at face value (which we shouldn't). Of course there will have been the odd genuine working class person made it through but the majority came from the middle classes..........
     
  17. 905

    905 Senior Member

    Location:
    Midwest USA
    I can't wait for Noel to reply to that.
     
    Tensilversaxes likes this.
  18. Wright

    Wright Forum Resident

    Well, that was just off the top of my head - I could mention more, if I only think. Roger Daltrey, Keith Moon, Graham Nash...

    How do you define working class, anyway? Performing physical labor is Marx's basic definition, isn't it? Well, most of the people I mentioned grew up with fathers who did physical work: bricklayers, miners... Many of their sons initially started out doing the same type of work (e.g. Daltrey, who was a sheet metal worker). You're saying that's not working class?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
  19. Shem the Penman

    Shem the Penman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I thought the same thing - Noel is too witty & snarky to engage on something like this.

    I guess it's a fair point but I'm not sure what exactly Noel is supposed to do about it at this point. Forget this music business stuff: get out there and play and have fun. I just played a cover of 'Just Getting Older' at an open mic night a few weeks ago. Thank you Noel.
     
    905 likes this.
  20. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I'm saying the majority came from a middle class background that had as much to do with their parents creating an environment for artistic expression due to financial freedom. Whether it was access to instruments or an attitude of development that led to further education. We know how many bands grew out of art school and university.
    The reality is for that first generation of pioneers there was more opportunity to go into music, of course there were working class members too that for whatever reasons went that direction. Of course a lot of it was down to the individuals involved.

    The key players in the British explosion whatever way you dress it up were middle class. And of course the terminology was more fitting then, the working class were the lower paid and often with a more limited world view not that they were any less caring or loving. If you grew up in the UK in the 60's and 70's beyond that first wave you would have also found that the mindset of the working classes did not change quickly-probably the mid to late 70's saw a sea change in attitudes towards life. It would also be wrong to discount the importance of Punk in inspiring those from lesser backgrounds.

    You need to generalise of course but there's little doubt the majority of key players were middle class.... from the leafy suburbs of Liverpool to the Surrey posse of guitarists to the musicians son who dreamed of rock operas and chaos through a wide variety of folk and songwriting influenced individuals......
     
    Havoc likes this.
  21. Moray

    Moray Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    I think you've missed the point, it's not about being working class, it's about saying you are to appear cool! I can certainly see how you'd get that from reading NME over that period, and can remember being bemused by people at my University loudly and proudly declaring they were working class in an attempt to impress; if you're studying for an arts degree at uni then I'd suggest you're not working class, and if you think being working class is cool I'd suggest you're not working class and are also a bit of an idiot.

    Anyway, I'm off to listen to some Nick Drake.
     
    ajsmith likes this.
  22. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I don't care about the background of any musician I like, long as they produce the goods I couldn't give a toss.

    It is very very true that it is much harder for people with low incomes to get into music though, worse than it's ever been. The terrible state the country is in and the prices of rent and food etc.

    In the old days you could sign on, get your dole, and then spend all week messing about in bands and so on - you had the time, and the energy, to do this. Plus you could live quite cheaply.

    Nowadays they force young people to do a crap job stacking shelves for minimum wage, or a zero hours contract, and they are too knackered to think about playing or starting a band and don't have any time.
     
    Andersoncouncil likes this.
  23. Stan

    Stan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago

    See Little Rock, AK
     
  24. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I think you've misunderstood me actually but just to be clear only morons act like that. Being working class in a lot of cases wasn't easy I came from an area in Glasgow where a lot of people simply never made it out of their background, many of them are dead for a variety of reasons.

    I was lucky enough to get back to education in my early 20's and met many of the same people you did-the people from the suburbs who were red hot socialists and hadn't a clue about the reality of being working class in the late 70's and onwards in Glasgow. Such is life.

    But that was then I don't truly believe we are in the same situation and as much as the NME was as daft and as fascist as it could get post-punk it never made much difference other than create a generation of musical snobs who shut their minds to a lot of music.

    People obsessed with class have an issue imho but the reality is up until arguably the 90's the class divisions were more important in the UK than now..
     
  25. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I don't think I can agree with that in wider terms.

    Of course people struggling to get by is an issue and of course the music industry in 2015 is a very very tough place to operate.

    However access to software, selling your music or promoting it via the internet, abundance of instruments etc make it a different game nowadays.

    When you walk through Glasgow city centre you have to be amazed by the number of young buskers playing away, promoting their stuff, a lot of it original-there was really little like that back in the day in terms of numbers etc.

    I'm sure every UK city and town is similar.
     
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