Another maximized horror--BIG STAR STORY

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Gardo, Nov 12, 2003.

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  1. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Virginia
    Here are four waveforms to demonstrate the steadily degraded mastering of Big Star over the years. The song is "September Gurls," and here's the chronology: Ardent LP, Big Beat CD, Poptopia CD, and the new Ryko issue. As you'll see, the Ryko BIG STAR STORY is a textbook case of ultramaximization, and it sounds like it too. The horror!:realmad:

    I should also note that every single mastering other than the original vinyl manages to clip the initial attack of the opening guitar on this song. Why, I don't know.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Wow that is terrible. I head about the "Story" CD and was considering picking it up since the MFSL SACD was apparently canceled. How can I get one of the "Big Beat" CDs. Can you provide a link to the cover?
     
  3. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
  4. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Virginia
    Actually, the domestic Ardent CD is (probably--I need to check--see lschwartz's post below) the same mastering as the Big Beat CD and a lot easier to find, though it clips the beginning of "Feel" as well as the beginning of "September Gurls."

    The Big Beat CD should be available as an import. Apparently there's a 24-bit Japanese remaster out there but I haven't heard it.
     
  5. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    Gardo,

    Do you know if the Big Beat lps use the same mastering as the Big Beat cds? :confused:
     
  6. VeeDub

    VeeDub Senior Member

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    If you hang around eBay long enough, there are the Line Records releases (CD) from Germany to dig up. These have different, and IMHO superior, mastering to the Big Beat and Ardent/Fantasy issues and do not clip 'Feel' or 'Gurls.' Line Records released two different titles (at least): One is a 2-fer of #1 Record & Radio City, the other is a "3-in-2" that has the #1/Radio disc, and the 2nd disc is Sister Lovers (or their version of it--has a different running order and fewer tracks than the Ryko). I picked up the #1/Radio/Sister release off eBay about 6 months ago and it is terrific.
     
  7. Peter D

    Peter D Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Buyers beware: the initial Line release of the twofer omitted two songs (both from #1 Record, IIRC), so make sure that you're getting the version with all 24 songs...


    EDIT: I just checked some Big Star discographies and found that it was the intial BIG BEAT CD that omitted the two tracks, not the Line version. Sorry...
     
  8. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Virginia
    My A/B listening tests suggest that they do use the same mastering.

    Mark's point about the Line CDs is interesting, and that's not the first time I've had those recommended to me. I've always been a little iffy about Line because in my experience they use inferior sources and are often hissy. Maybe the Big Star stuff is different.

    WRT the above waveforms, I should point out that I normalized peak levels to 0db in the first two cases so the visual comparison would be fair. The Poptopia and BSS masterings were already normalized to peak at 0db.

    Has anyone here heard the Japanese Big Star CD?
     
  9. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Virginia
    The first Big Beat CD had exactly the same issue, omitting "In The Street" and "ST 100/6." The second Big Beat CD and the Ardent/Fantasy CD are complete.
     
  10. lschwart

    lschwart Senior Member

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Gardo,

    Are you sure that the Big Beat and Ardent CD issues are the same mastering? It always seemed to me that the Ardent was a good deal brighter and a bit harsher than the BB, but it's been a while since I compared them. The difference was enough at a first listen to make me keep the BB rather than trade it in--as was my plan--after buying the Ardent.

    L.
     
  11. VeeDub

    VeeDub Senior Member

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Gardo, thanks for the follow-ups. Didn't realize Line also had a truncated release (in addition to a complete 2-fer).

    For whatever reason, the Line CDs sound a bit better to me, not as harsh in the high-end.
     
  12. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Virginia
    I'm not entirely sure--I haven't run a spectrum analysis on them to check on EQ issues--but IIRC the peak and average RMS values were the same, and the Ardent CD has a notation on there about being mastered in the UK in 1990, which is when the Big Beat masters were made. I'll check tonight when I get home.
     
  13. VeeDub

    VeeDub Senior Member

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I also believe the BB complete 2-fer and the Ardent had the same mastering, but I last compared them long ago (talkin' CDs here). Never owned the Ardent, but borrowed a friend's at the time. If they aren't the same, they're extemely close--more so than either compared to the Line.
     
  14. Peter D

    Peter D Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Sorry guys, I was wrong -- only the initial Big Beat CDs were truncated, not the original Lines. I edited my original post to correct the error...

    Incidentally, now that I've shattered whatever credibility I have, I'll weigh in and say that I too think that the Big Beat and Ardent CDs are essentially identical. I don't have the disc with me at the moment, but I recall that the credits for the 1992 Ardent CD say that it was mastered in London in 1990, which I believe is the year that the full-length UK Big Beat version was released.
     
  15. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    The Big Beat CD would be as far as I would go...
     
  16. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
    There's also the new German 24 bit ZYX/Ardent remaster, which is apparently another 'nuther maximized horror!
     
  17. 120dB

    120dB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Big Star challenge

    I'll swear by the original Line 2-fer (and I've heard 'em
    all). IMO the most sympathetic digital mastering that these
    lps have yet received. You can even crank 'em up without
    gritting your teeth like you would with the Ardent and later
    versions. Interesting that Line also did the most listenable
    remaster of The Yardbirds "Roger the Engineer" (stereo) album
    around the same time they did the Big Star. Seek 'em out...
     
  18. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member

    Location:
    ....
    I have Radio City on the original Ardent LP... never played! Got it from the Ardent's warehouse.

    When my new turntable arrives, I just might have to put that sucker on and make a needle drop.
     
  19. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Virginia
    Most cool.:cool: How'dja manage that?
     
  20. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
    Lots of Ardent warehouse stuff was still floating around last time I was in Memphis. Every musician I know down there seems to have some of it!! One place to look in person or online might be Shangri-La Records - home of all things Memphis music!
     
  21. Chris M

    Chris M Senior Member In Memoriam

    Wow. Keep us posted about the needle drop. Anyone know why the new MoFi had to scrap the SACD twofer?

    Chris
     
  22. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member

    Location:
    ....
  23. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist Thread Starter

    Location:
    Virginia
    How quickly I forget.:) Yep, it was a great thread and you've got one extraordinary Big Star stash! I also found a silly mistake in one of my posts:
    I MEANT to say "Radio City" of course. :sigh: Glad to be able to clear that one up.
     
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