Another Mcintosh thread - I'm at a loss...

You know recently I started a Mac 6900 discussion and as a result was extremely excited about getting one. However my delivery failed and right now the most optimistic variant is that I'll get my Mac at the end of the summer. Which, of course, sucks. The only quick Mac option I have right now is to get MHT100, a multichannel amp, sealed for $4100. The price is a bargain for sure but is it THAT good as a stereo amp (I don't have a MCh setup at the moment)? I'm pretty sure it will work wonders as a receiver and SACD/DVD-A multichannel amp but right now I need my usual music played. The idea is to get it right now and use it for stereo until I'm able to built a HT. HELP! (After all the waiting I'm very tempted to give this guy a call and ask him to bring the beast over! )

 

Nobody has any experience with this begemoth? I remember Sam S. heard one. Sam, where are you?

 

Hello! I'm here

So let's see... you're thinking about the MHT100 vs MA6900? You are right, I have heard and messed with both fairly extensively. I know more of the in's-and-outs of the MHT100, but the MA6900 uses the same amp section as my former MC-202, so I'm very familar with the sound of that piece.

MHT100
One of the best-sounding home theater recievers EVER! Has 6.1 + 2 additional 100w channels. You can easily do 7.1 if that's important. I don't think international versions come with a tuner built in. The USA version has a great AM/FM tuner. It's BIG! About 70lbs I think. There is a new version out there, the MHT200 for about $1000 more. Does have a few new cool features. Although it would make your XA9000ES sound great, the onboard amp section is not perfect for stereo listening.

MA6900
A workhorse stereo integrated amp. Your Vandys would come to life with this thing. Listening to stereo with this will probably let your speakers sound better than they ever will. This one is maybe $1000 less than the MHT100 depending on the deal you're getting. Now, there would be no easy path to Hometheater/ multi-channel land if you went down this road. But, the way to 5.1 is pretty expensive. MHT100 is more $$, you'll have to buy more speakers, etc. Good thing it that you already have probably the best 5.1 SACD player out there. Too bad there's not more 5.1 SACDs

So, it's a tough call. Don't expect the MHT100 to sound as good as the MA6900 in stereo. It will sound better than any other receiver out there for stereo, just not to the same "knock you on the ground" great sound that the MA6900 has.

 

Sam, if I could get 6900 tommorow there will be no question for me! I tried every possible variant out there. I can't see any of them used and if I order the brand new one ($4500) it will show up in 3 months. By that time I'll be totaly nuts, more paranoid then Alice Cooper, Ozzy and The Wall's Pink ever were.
MHT100 is sold for $4000 in a perfect condition, never used (without the waranty though) and can be at my place in 3 days. My entry level Vandies (as much as I love 'em) are hardly high end speakers anyway (and when I expand to HT next yeara they will take their place in the rear with 3A's in the front) so I doubt that 6900's talents will shine thru 'em at the moment. Maybe MHT100's sonics can be enough for the time being and if I built the MCh system around it then maybe I'll get myself a separate dedicated stereo system next in a smaller room with 6900 (or separates) and high level speakers? At least this variant gives me Mac sound NOW. What do you think?

 

Hmmm. Tough call. But reading your posts, I would think the MHT100 would be suitable for your current gear and future plans. Best way, would be to get MHT100, and maybe one day get a Mac stereo solid-state or tube amp to hook up from the MHT100 pre-outs for upgraded stereo listening one day.

 

Sam, you mean in the same system? Connect 3A's directly from MHT100 for multichanel listening and at the same time from the power amp for stereo? Thus I need to switch off 100's power amps and use it only as a pre when listening to stereo? Right? Is it easy to do?

P.S. And another stupid question, Sam if you don't mind! I need 3 IC pairs to connect my Sony to Mac for MCh. When I get a separate DVD/DVD-A player does it mean I have to get another 3 pairs I would I have to change them each time?

 

McIntosh stuff is extremely reliable and built like a tank, but paying that much for a new surround receiver without getting a warranty would make me nervous. In my experience, there is much more to go wrong with multiple channels and digital processing and everything that goes into a home theater receiver. An integrated amp is a much simpler design.

Besides that, in my personal opinion, having McIntosh amplification for movies is overkill, and you could get by with a lot less quality for that. However, if you plan on being heavily into multichannel music, there is probably no better way to go than with the Mac. If you have not spent a lot of time listening to multichannel music yet, I would spend some time listening to that before investing so much money in a multichannel system. Some people actually realize they prefer stereo once they spend some time with multichannel. Others, like me, are floored by multichannel on a few titles, but pass over the multichannel mixes on most things. So I would definitely give yourself a chance to see if you want to dive all the way in to multichannel before spending the bucks. Just another way to look at it.

 

Anton,

Initially, you would just hook all 5 speakers directly to the speaker outputs on the MHT100. If you wanted to upgrade your L/R power one day, you would hook up the line-level pre-outs to another amp, then hook up your L/R speakers to the "new" amp's speaker terminals. You would be using the MHT100 as a pre-amp for the L/R speakers. Nothing beyond the initial hook-up required for stereo/5.1 listening. Make sense?

For DVD-A, well you're in for a challenge. Yes you would need 3 more pairs of ICs, but you have no more External In jacks on the MHT100 after you hook up the XA9000ES. You could use a switchbox of some type. I use the Sony TAP-9000ES that lets me run my pre-amp through it as well as allowing for dual 5.1 sources.

Regading Ian's comments: No chance you can get a warranty Anton? Yes, the Mac stuff is very reliable, the only thing that really goofs it up is making the loooong journey from NY to where you live. The majority of Mac defects are a result of rough shipping. The Mac sound is just as sweet in 5.1 as it is for stereo. Often times movie soundtracks are more dynamic than stereo listening. Extra Mac power is always a good thing

 

Well, I got my Mac MHT100 yesterday. Well, what can I say? A big dissapointment so far. The sound is bright and coloured (I have to trim the treble to minus 5 and the bass to plus 2 to make eat at least listenable. Well, I guess I can sort this problem out with trying different cables (any ideas?) but the main problem is that there is no dynamics, no punch. The sound comes from inside of the speakers, they don't breathe as they used to with my old tube amp. I'm not even talking about things like detail and soundstage. I dunno, maybe the Vandies are wrong for the Mac? Even if I upgrade them to, say, 3A's they wil still have this laid back Vandersteen character and thus need somethig much more dinamic then McIntosh?


P.S. Mac looks beautiful and I also don't want to panic and admit that I blew $4000 yet...

 

Anton,

I think that you might need some time for your ears to transition from hearing a tube sound to hearing a solid state sound. They are vastly different, as I'm sure you already know. Be patient, and give your ears some time to get adjusted to the sound difference.



Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

 

Your description does sound somewhat typical of new equipment. Often we read something like this, only to hear that a few hundred hours later the bass has filled out, the treble eased off a bit and dynamics have emerged. Although I have no real affection for Macintosh, you may be pleasantly surprised in the next few weeks. I certainly hope so.

 

Anton, I feel for you having so much trouble getting sound gear. I have always thought that Vandy's are a bit too laid back. While I use conrad-johnson myself, from what I have heard and know of Mac, it is probably just showing you the true character of the Vandy's.

 

Wow.... this was not the type of post I was expecting to read after you got your new machine

Although I am a big Mac fan, I can truthfully say there is no other receiver on the market that sounds as natural as the MHT100. Quite possible the best 6.1 sound you can buy for that price range. True, it does not sounds like tubes, but should have a very clean, smooth sound with rich bass. I don't think changing cables with change the sound that much in your situation. I have used the MHT100 extensively, and heard it in at least 6 different set-ups with different rooms/equipment. In fact, my good audio buddy used one for over a year until he got an MC206. I musta heard that MHT100 at his house for serious listening over 100 times.

Have you double checked that your speakers are properly hooked up in phase, i.e. the +/- outputs are correct for both speakers and receiver? That can cause symtoms like you describe.

Like others said, it may take some time for your ears to get used to the sound. Is your old tube amp strictly an amp, or is it an integrated model? If it is strictly an amp (line-level inputs, speaker outputs, no volume control), you can use it with the MHT100 to get your "old" sound back by hooking up the L/R line outs of the MHT100 into your tube amp, and the L/R speakers up to the tube amps terminals.

If you are having to reduce treble by -5, something is not right. Have you tried a variety of well recorded discs? I know for a fact (I own one!!) the XA9000ES is a very neutral-sounding machine. Unless your speakers are just an ill-match, the XA9000ES + MHT100 should really offer world-class sound.

 

I can ony hope! But didn't McIntosh themselves state that solid state break in is b******t?

 

Sam, my old tube amp is gone for good. Nothing left but some great sonic memories. And phasing IS correct. In fact, a friend of mine dropped by today to check out the Mac. He also said the sound is a bit weird and unnatural but he's sure that Mac is OK (he heard it in an other guy's place before and was pretty impressed) - it's the obvious lack of synergy with the speakers. So he said: don't even think of building 5.1. Vandersteen system with Mac, sell the Vandies (or leave em for a small room stereo system) and get some decent surround speakers with open and dynamic sound. Maybe it's a good idea. So the new question is: which speakers will do Mac justice? The room is about 50 square meters with 3.5 meter cellings. Any candidates?

 

There shouldn't be a synergy problem with Vandersteen and McIntosh. If there were, it certainly wouldn't result in the sound being too bright. Quite the opposite. But that's a moot point.

It's a break-in issue, and one that'll take more than a couple of weeks to remedy...unless *maybe* you go the 24/7 route for two weeks. Still probably not enough.

When the McCormack DNA series amplifiers were really hot in the mid to late 1990's, they were one of the most popular choices to drive Vandersteen speakers. I chose that very combination myself. Given the similarity of the McCormack and McIntosh sounds, I'd rule out a mismatch. My Vandersteen/McCormack combo has a great synergy.

With time it'll all fill in nicely.

**edited for some bizarre grammatical errors**

 

(scratches head)... very odd. Modern Mac gear isn't known to be picky with matching components and speakers. This might be just a case of an "ear-opener" that your speakers weren't doing all they could "do".

My speaker recommendations? Well (here comes the bias)...I suggestion you audition something in the line of the world's second largest speaker manufacturer, B&W!

B&Ws always sound great with McIntosh, at every price point. Now they do have different sonic characteristics for each "series", but you can't go wrong with any of them. Just go as high as your budget allows, and I think you'll be fine. Another reason I recommend them, they are a popular international brand and hopefully you can audition them somewhere.

 

Anton, e-mail Mac and ask them what they use to test the amps in listening test. For example I know that cj uses Wilson's. I do not use them myself but at least I know what cj's reference is.

 

Without sounding like I'm butting in, I know the answer to this one. At the McIntosh Lab in Binghamton, NY, they use McIntosh speakers almost exclusively. I have been to their testing and product development rooms, and it is a sight to behold.

You can also direct specific questions to Chuck Hinton at McIntosh: [email protected] He is very good about responding to emails.

 

Probably their own speakers.

Who knows, though, maybe they have a stash of others, too...


Nevermind...see above post.

 

SamS and everybody,I thank you all for your help with my Mcintosh troubles this summer. I took some time off in the meantime and decided to built a new multichanel/HT system using the Mac. I bought myself a Sonus Faber speaker set up (Grand Pianos for the front, Solo for the center and Walls for the rears) added REL Storm III sub and Denon 2900 for DVD/DVD-Audio as well as Panasonic 37 plasma. After a some problems with my sub settings well documented in REL III thread I'm finaly moving into right direction. At least one combination (Mogami speaker cable and Grover's Mk3 IC) gave me a really great sound. Still I returned Mogami as I feel for that money I can get much more. I guess Grover's SR MK2 ICs and speaker cable is the way to go (as I can't afford 4 Empress ICs and a speaker cable). I'm also given a few good recommendations on power cords in the thread I recently started so in a few weeks I hope to reach the first lelvel of sonic nirvana!

Sam, I remember you recommended me getting a separate power amp (using MHT 100 as a pre) for stereo listening in the future. When i finish my system setting I of course will want to go further. What's your recommendations?

 

Go back to tubes for the front.

 

No problem but if somebody can recommend me a power amp or two that would be just great...