DCC Archive Any opinions on this Cat 5 DIY speaker wire?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Todd Fredericks, Nov 12, 2001.

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  1. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    A New Yorker
  2. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    Todd,
    I know that Metralla, where ever he may be, has done the exact thing you are asking about and says it sounds fantastic.
    I believe our local cable guru (just kidding) Sckott has said that it's a very inexpensive and quite worth it using this type of cable. :D
     
  3. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Yep, done it quite a few times. the real deal is, what Chris tells you to do is braid MANY MANY strands together. You may feel this is insanity, but it works very well. Best if you already to network installs and keep a big fat 1000' reel around ;) like I do. Cat5 is cheap, even the good stuff, per foot compared to most cable. Not sure if a Home Depot is in your area, but they have the BICC General in boxes with a wooden roll in-a-box for close to $50 for 1000'. It's "outdoor use" approved, easier to work with, soft outside casing (that in this instance gets thrown out anyway) that's easy to split by pulling the polystrand drawstring down the cable. The casing is easilly removed.

    I've used it several places... mostly hookup or "jumper" cable between my preamp and amp. I did braids of 3X3 for each channel, one end a gold RCA to a 1/4" jack to the amp. Used another 3X3 for video from the preamp to the television monitor (great!) and then I just used one twisted pair for the sub (not braided).

    I did try for speaker cable as per Chris, but I found that you'd have to pull, seperate and braid for almost a week (or 3 days if you wanna rip your fingers to death and get madly into it) and the way it braids by 3 twisted pairs at a time, you end up with cumbersome "flat" braids that you braid and braid again. If you pull 14 cables at 10', you end up with just over 5', so make sure you pull tons, almost twice the ammount. So, 6" means I would take 14' or 15' to make sure. You also realize you have to seperate the + from - and there's trimming involved after, then stripping tons of strands at exact length. The braids don't come out even either every time. Beware.

    I recommend it, but you'll put one mean blister on your fore-finger. Be prepared for the pain and the dedication, or don't.

    If you just want to try it, take about 8' and do what I did, which is 3X3 in twisted pairs and use it for line level stuff. I've found it does actually use about a weeks worth of break-in time (in sparatic 3-4 hours a day of listening). I didn't believe that it does use break in time, but it's actually true.

    Also true is the fact that the real high copper (good cat5) is high in capacitance. Read about that in his receipe. If you want to go for the 14 runs and braid exactly how he recommends, you'll have to really work the solid wires and the striped "white" wires seperately for a while before they'll behave, you'll need to solider it into a big globby lump, and then try your aim to get it into even the 'good' jacks.

    I'd say do what I did, which is braids of 3 twisted pair, braided 3 of those together again for ease of use, soldering and working into most jacks. Use the silver bearing Radio Shack solder (not tin) of the higher width, as you're gonna sit there with an iron and soak the whole damn thing together with TONS of solider to make it all go together. Use them for either speaker cable or line cable like I did. Really nice stuff. Sounds very nice.

    When Doc Bottlehead's Foreplay comes in, I have a CD player, tuner combo that's all cat5 for jumpers. I'm convinced it's the way I'm going to go for a long time. It's pretty too! Girls dig it. You may braid her hair in your sleep for nights after you go through it all! :p

    Here's some pics. One of the bigger braid, that didn't get finished, as it shrunk after braiding multiple times here, then there's the small set I have in the bunker, waiting for the Foreplay and you can see both the CD line cable and the tuner (no braid) line cable here, and a peek-a-boo behind my electrostatic speaker, you can see one of the lines going to my Hafler below by voyering here. The odd set I have is just plain RCA generic plastic solder plugs. On the Hafler/Rotel combo, it's the Rat Shack gold RCAs and gold 1/4" mono plugs, per side.

    ALWAYS use a volt meter(OHms) to make sure you aren't grounding out. It's VERY easy to screw that up, especially if you go more than my 3X3. In a HQ Gold RCA, after trying to twist every one of those bastards together, you may need help or a vice to keep things steady. The high capacitence in the high-copper mix cat5 will show too. You'll test each negitive end, then positive, then find the negitive end has held a tiny charge. Spooky.

    [ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]
     
  4. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Sckott, thanks for your very detailed response. I may not be ready for the dedication of Chris' recipe at this moment (Perhaps after the holidays) but I may try yours. Next week I'll go to home depot and pick up a roll. So for speaker cables you're saying to braid 3 twisted pairs, then the same process so I have 3 sets of braided twisted pairs and then braid them all together and then solder to connectors (separating + and - type wires)? The speaker cable length needed is about 12 ft but I may move my Dynaco st-70 closer to the speakers which my reduce the length needed by half. Also, is this the same recipe for interconnects (I'm a little confused)...

    Todd
     
  5. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    I feel that braiding 3 twisted pairs together makes fine hookup cables, just get yourself some gold RCAs from Digikey or Radio Shack if you're in a rush. That would be 3 strands per + or - side. 6 strands per L or R channel.

    For speaker cable, make that braid, and make 3 equal lengths, and braid those together per channel (L&R). This would make 18 strands per channel, then you seperate your - and + by seperating solid wires with white-striped ones. Chris wants you to do many, many multiple braids. I think you should try making some nice hookup cables with it, try it, if you can endure, go hog wild. It's braiding the 1st twisted pairs together that take a while, that progress the least, and making multiple future braids, this makes the 1st braid the most tedious. Once you have tons of 3-braids, braiding them together is much less time, then braiding again, less than previous.

    Once your fingers hurt, use some masking tape on your forefinger to minimize a blister or two. I really feel that braiding to Chris's end is a little overboard, and a pain to thread in most RCA jacks, even harder to solder and manage.

    The cool thing about this DIY is you can invest as much time as you feel, save for your fingers.

    Remember, on the good Cat5, the more nutty you go with multiple braids, the more capacitence you build, and an end cable longer than 7' can do weird stuff, especially if you have hallogen lights, high radio frequenies in the neighborhood. Chris' site (as well as others) talk about capacitence in the cables.

    BTW, a simple, single twisted pair I use for a rude-version of an antenna for that tuner you see in the pic (a simple Sherwood SS I use for listening to talk radio and such, just for downstairs). Cat5 strands do well in this idea, big time. You also realize I used only a single twisted pair for the hookup cable for the tuner. You don't need to be real critical for that toy. The CD player, I did it "my way" with 3X3.

    [ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]
     
  6. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    Todd,
    When you click into Sckotts posting look at the task bar on the left and click into the silver interconnects and it fully explains how to build your own awesome interconnects ;)
     
  7. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I'm here Dave!

    I did build the full 27 pair (3x3x3) ChrisVH recipe. It was a lot of work, but I run very short speaker cables. I think I started with about 6', and after completion the length was about 4'6". I bought a small portable vice and attached that to one of the shelves in the kitchen. You'll need something like this.

    Since these are a lot of work it's essential to get the right cable. I don't know all the variations that may be out there, but I do know the Belden number which is correct. It's #1585A. You can get this through Radio Shack by placing a special order. The wires are 24 ga solid core high-purity copper, insulated with Teflon. There is a flame-arrest jacket, but this is removed. Don't bother with any substitutes for the Belden 1585A.

    The braiding is a pain, but I never got any blisters. My hands and fingers were a bit sore for a week after I was finished. I took my time and did a few braids each night, and it probably took a couple of weeks. Once you have the big braid finished you have to dig out the plain and striped wires, and you must use a multimeter (continuity tester) and make sure there are no errors.

    I do not believe in soldering these. Get a set of Kimber PostMaster spades - these are top-class and have an excellent crimping system that will take the 27 copper wires. Then crimp as hard as you can with a pair of vice-grips or linesman's pliers.

    I did not bother with any cover for the cables. They do take quite a while to break in, but I think they are really excellent. If you only have short runs they are doable - but anything over 8' is hard to braid.

    I'm now making another pair of cables using pure silver (99.99%) foils about 1" wide. The recipe comes from Allen Wright, an Aussie valve amp designer who now lives in Germany - www.vacuumstate.com. He has a number of foil designs in his "Super Cable Cookbook". I'm going for a simple design - 2 foils sandwiched together with pure Teflon tape as an insulator, then mummy-wrapped with Teflon tape. One doesn't need any connectors with the foils - just cut an opening in the foil and put this under the binding post nut. I have all the stuff for these cables and will start in a day or so.

    I'll let you know how the foils work out.

    If anyone is serious about making the ChrisVH recipe, post here and ask me for more details. I'm happy to help. I have a few tips for construction that I would adopt if I was to make the braids again - I braided too tightly!

    Regards,
    Metralla
     
  8. TimB

    TimB Pop, Rock and Blues for me!

    Location:
    Colorado
    I tried CAT 5 about 10 years ago. My memory of it was very wooly bass, and that my standard 12 gauge monster cable sounded better! My memory of was not very posative! :cool:
     
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