The UK sounds very good for what it is. Some of you might want to check out "Primitive And Deadly" by Earth which is fantastic!
thanks well yes I have in my wishlist Children, so Im looking the best sounding press... Earth? the band of Kurt Cobain friend? this: http://earthsl.bandcamp.com/album/primitive-and-deadly ? update: yes! sounds great, I only know the old Earth on SST records I think...
Sub Pop There are a lot of similarities between Swans and Earth. Both use slow tempos, had their radical beginnings and then moved on to a more stately sound without losing their power and majesty. Then they broke up. And came back. At the moment both function as collectives and have late career peaks that have been going on for a while now As for SST: There are two Mark Lanegan vocals on Earth's new album Back to Swans... I've checked and all my Swans vinyl except for "Filth" and "Greed" are good sounding UK pressings. And I've got all their albums except for....grrrrr..."The Great Annihilator". I've seen it two or three times but refuse to pay 100€+
oh yes sorry SubPop, I like a lot Swans but I really miss Jarboe on, I love the Jarboe solo stuff and Skin project. wow great you have a lot records of swans, I just have the cds, some are rare, and yes! G. Ahnihilator is damn expensive and rare. I want start with Children of God on vinyl, so Im looking a UK product press
That is a good place to start. Around 2006 I found a copy of this in near mint condition in a five Euro bin. Unbelievable. Since I already had it I sold it but back then this hardly fetched more than 15, 20 Euros. No idea what it goes for now. Should be cheaper than the bunny albums. Or "The Great Annihilator"....grrrrr
Anyone know if the RSD Swans EP is the new remastered version? I suspect that it may well be as these EP tracks will feature on the forthcoming expanded Filth edition.
Well what do you know. Mr. Gira replied to my email and confirmed that the 12" does indeed contain the newly remastered tracks! Can't wait to get it now. It's just such a good EP.
Wow. I'm surprised at the lack of Swans discussion, too. Blind was great. First time to hear The Swans. When I get the time I am going to check them out. Thanks for posting this. Sorry for being 4 years late to the discussion. A little back-logged here.
This is one of of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard from the fantastic album Great Annihilator , words can not describe the intensity levels of the emotion in the music and in michael Gira vocals, listening to the song it's like diving into ocean of magical sadness . Swans - Blood Promise Unfortunately the intro is absent from the clip but you can still feel the magic.
So, anyone get the 3CD expanded 'Filth' CD set yet? Is it worth is for anyone who already owns the old 'Filth/Swans' and 'Body To Body Job To Job' CDs? Of course, what I'm REALLY hoping for next is a deluxe 3CD edition of the COMPLETE 'Holy Money' and 'Greed' sets (hopefully with a DVD of 'A Long Slow Screw' and 'Public Castration Is A Good Idea' thrown in for good measure - I can't watch the betamax tape of the former and the CD of the latter is a terrible vinyl transfer); the original unedited discs sound pretty poor and the edited remasters have rotted away on me (damn PDO).
I've been checking their Facebook page to see if there would be any reaction, and I just found this, written presumably by Gira: "I am completely shocked myself. This is a slanderous lie. I will respond vigorously to defend my name against this horrible slur. I trust in the intelligence of those who have followed my work and respect me as a person, to know this is NOT the person I am. The rumor mill/"confessional" Facebook post travels like fire- but this one is lies. More soon. This is an utter nightmare. thank you for your support. please spread the word. this is lies!"
Wow...that's pretty horrible. But I guess in order to actually discuss this one needed to know the people involved. Let's see how this goes....
I give this as much credibility as any unsubstantiated accusation made on social media. And Jennifer Gira apparently has documented proof of previous harassment from the accuser.
Yes, pretty horrible and very specific detailed allegations that have to be taken seriously and examined; although things like him cornering her in a lift a promising to 'make her a star' just sound inconceivable coming from the mouth of Gira, given what he is all about. Nevertheless; a good part of Swans art has been about the dark side of sexuality along with power and submission so he has always been an artist on the edges with that intense side to him. I hope he did not overstep the mark and let life imitate art here. I don't want to give him a pass as a massive fan and so many rapes are not reported nor successfully prosecuted that there should never be an atmosphere where a woman feels she cannot come forward and be taken seriously when she is the victim of sexual discrimination or violence. Having said that; reading Gira's wife Jennifer's furious facebook response it would appear that there is some very sordid underlying aspects here as well as documented written evidence that has been going on for a few years that bring the accuser's credibility into serious question. I also read an online interview with the accuser immediately after her album was released on Young God where she is fulsome in her praise of Gira, his humanity, grace and character and benevolence to her. Does not strike me as the words of someone who had been going through systematic sexual harassment and recent serious sexual assault during the making of said album from her 'mentor' Even in denial one would think if that was going on, she would have tempered her praise of him somewhat to a much less effusive degree not specifically focusing on his good character and understanding of her femininity. M.Gira has worked with and supported complex female artists such as Jarboe and Lisa Germano a lot over the years. Women who have had and publically admitted serious emotional and mental issues as well as (including his wife and Germano) being survivors of sexual assault from men so it is difficult to square that off with this allegation from someone who sadly seems to have had a lot of similar issues herself over time. Nevertheless it deserves proper investigation as it is a serious crime that women need to feel they can come forward over in all areas of society and situations. Whatever comes out in the wash I hope justice is served.
This is Michael's wifes post This age of publicly accusing over Twitter and Facebook has got to stop. If someone has wronged you, go to the proper authorities. The people who do this **** are the reasons why rape victims aren't always taken seriously. Also, the weird thing about this Larkin girl is that after she made her accusatory post, she promoted a show she was doing not long after it, and encouraged people to show up and give her hugs.
Hopefully it's not true. Wonder how this will affect the planned release of the last Swans album. It's currently being mixed.
Gira has issued an official statement about Grimm's accusations via a publicist: Honestly, this statement does very little to assuage fears and suspicions that Grimm's claims may be true. In fact, it just muddles things even further. It doesn't quite jive with the tone or content of his previous statements, nor with his wife's statement, which paints Grimm as a mentally unstable liar who imagined the entire situation. Now, Gira is saying that the situation Grimm described did happen, but that it was a "consensual romantic moment" they both regret. And yet....he doesn't deny any of her other accusations, or her claim that she was passed out when he allegedly initiated sexual contact. It's the most bizarre defense against a rape accusation I've ever seen, and I'd argue perhaps even self-incriminating. Now that Gira has apparently lawyered up, I wouldn't be surprised if he's been advised to not comment on the issue any further on social media. I mentioned this elsewhere on another forum, but another thing that is bothering me about this is that, as I was reading Grimm's post, I recalled this interview with David Yow in which he recounts an incident that occurred at J.G. Thirlwell's apartment in the mid-80s where Gira came on to him and shoved his tongue in Yow's mouth. Yow bit it so hard he drew blood in an attempt to get away. He said Gira later sent him a hand-written apology, and doesn't seem fazed by it anymore. But regardless of Yow's personal feelings on what happened between the two of them, this story suggests something troubling: there is at least some sort of precedence for sexual harrassment/misconduct from Gira, to my deep dismay. I'm seeing a lot of fans dismissing Grimm's accusation on the basis that what she claims seems horribly out of character for Gira, but the fact is that until recent years he had a notorious and terrible reputation for belligerent behavior of all kinds. I've written on here before about my positive experiences meeting Gira. He goes out of his way to reward his fans for their support and to maintain a relationship with them, both online and in person. He has personally given me extremely heartening words of encouragement. He is one of my biggest musical heroes and inspirations. Contrary to the dark perception of him so many people have, he has dedicated himself completely to spreading the positive, joyful, transcendental qualities of music-making. He has championed and befriended so many strong, outspoken feminist musicians. But he's also lived a horrifyingly harrowing life, which doubtless informs so much of his art and who he is as a person, a deeply tortured, damaged person who by his own admission is capable of deplorable behavior. These contradictions are part of the reason why it is so difficult for me, and I'm guessing many other fans, to reconcile the man we respect with the possibility that he might be capable of something as grave as rape. I desperately don't want this accusation to be true, but the chance that it is true is greater than I think some fans are willing to admit. Gira's statements thus far are not encouraging. For now, it remains a tedious he said/she said drama that is almost certainly painful for all parties involved. All any of us on the outside can do is wait for it to develop further.
Cases like that are really complicated especially if you don't know the people involved. Yeah... I've been listening to Swans for almost three decades now but all I know about MG comes from his lyrics. Sex, power, domination all have been frequent topics. "Time Is Money (Bastard)" was the first song I thought of after I have read the accusations. But that's from 1986 and there are so many other, more transcendental tracks in the Swans catalogue. All I can say is whatever proof Gira and his wife have, they better get it out quick to end this nightmare.
Rape, sexual abuse and the abuse of power are strong themes in his early work, which to me has always clearly been informed by the traumas he experienced in his youth, on the street and in prison. It always seemed like a blatant critique of the way people in positions of authority or power abuse that power to subjugate others, not a glorification of it, which Gira himself has spoken to in interviews. I think this is partly why Gira gets so annoyed when people mischaracterize his music as being about macho BS. They entirely miss the point. I've seen a number of people try to use his early lyrics as "proof" that he's a rapist, which imo is grasping at some pretty dangerous straws. Even with lyrics as dark as his, I'm not sure that it's responsible or fair to make sweeping moral judgements about a person based on the art they produce, especially definitive statements on whether or not he raped someone. This isn't directed at you specifically, Neonbeam, just a general comment about the number of "of course he's a rapist, listen to his music!" comments I've been seeing on social media.
Mistaking the narrator for the author is a common mistake. Even more common in literature. Lyrics only prove one thing: That the author was fascinated enough by a topic to write about it.
Michael Gira had a pretty rough life though that I'm sure had an influence on his early work. He spent time in an adult Jerusalem prison at the age of 15, and was reportedly almost raped but saved by some other inmates who looked out for him. And I cannot find an article to corroborate this, but I'm positive I remember reading that he said that one night, when he was sleeping in the prison, he overheard another teen being raped and that it haunted him. I can't find the source though considering that every time I search for it, I'm greeted with pages about the recent allegations...
