Anybody have a 300B Tube Amp?

The famous WE 300B Tube has fascinated me since I became aware of it a few years ago. I really only have experience with the 6BQ5 final amp tube.

Does anyone have one of the modern 300B tube amps? What are your impressions? How much output power does it have?

I know that in Japan, many Audiophiles swear by the 300B tube as the ultimate in Audio Reproduction.

 

Thanks Steve. How would you describe the sound as compared to a classic 1950s/60s tube amp like a Scott or an EICO?

I've been SO curious about the 300B sound.

 

I have a pair of 300B monoblocks. They are Laurel IIx from Ron Welborne, with tube rectification (Mullard GZ37) and a 6SL7 driver valve. Mine had the optional "Ultimate Upgrade" and cost around $2700 the pair back in 2001. I have Western Electric 300Bs (from the "reissue" period) but I also have KR 300Bs (which they came with) and have used the Full Music "mesh" plates (2 pairs). I used these amps for 8 years or so, and then upgraded to the Lamm ML2.1 SETs.

Although the Laurels are fine amplifiers, the Lamms are a class above (as you would expect for a $30,000 amp), and the extra power (18w compared to 8w) seems to suit my Super Eclipse (94dB/w/m) better. There is something magical about 300Bs on the right loudspeaker. In my experience, I would say that the speakers should have a sensitivity above 97dB/w/m with a flat impedance above 10 Ohms. They will work with less sensitive speakers (like my Coincidents) but I suggest 97 plus.

Israel Blume's Frankenstein amps are a modern 300B amp that have had very good reviews, and sound fabulous.

 

I have 2. A push pull 300B and a Single ended. 300B's are, to me, laid back and have nice detail. I have only used cheaper Shuguang 300B's in the PP because 4 300B's becomes expensive. And in the single ended amp I use 2 Full Music mesh plate 300B's which sound pretty good and look very cool. I found 300B a tad flabby in the bass, that doesn't mean it's terrible or weak bass. But that could just be my amps. Also best to have efficient speakers.

If you don't mind an amp that uses kinda expensive tubes then have a try but if not then stick with your EL84 amp or try 6L6 or KT88 amps.

 

I loved my 300B amps. I converted them to 45, but honestly there are times I miss that robust beautiful sound the 300B produces. They are magical. Actually SET is magical and there are a number of tubes that are the core of it, 300B, 2A3, and 45. But go hear for yourself. There are plenty of people on various forums that would be happy to let you drop by and listen. I started off that way on the Bottlehead forum asking for help. Made a friend and we are still good friends more than 10 years later. So lurk on some friendly SET forums then ask if anyone is nearby and will let you listen. You'll be surprised, they will!

 

I have a Woo Audio WA-5 that I love and it puts out 10 watts per channel (but I am looking to upgrade to Audio Note double c-core monoblocks). SET amps reveal an amazing amount of detail and have a magical mid-range. They really excell with vocals and acoustic instruments. They are perfect for jazz. Mine is fine with rock music, but I have subs in my system. I'm not sure where in NY you live but you're welcome to come hear mine in NYC the next time I have an audio gathering.

 

I am using a pair of Mastersound 300B mono blocks that use a pair of 300B's in parallel in each amp to produce a stated 20 watts per side. The speakers (full range, super tweeter and powered sub woofers with no crossovers in the signal path to waste power) are 100db efficient so I am rarely pushing the amps. I figure I have about 19 watts on average for head room for most of my listening and that headroom is critical for transients even at 100 db efficiency.
It is not a case of 300B or not to 300B, as many SET amps using other tubes also have that purity and presentation in the mid range. It is also extremely important to have the best transformers in the amps.
I will never go back to solid state or tube push-pull amps.

 

Excellent

 

In Japan the 300B has iconic status. I believe that this is because of the esteem in which W. Edwards Deming is held, which drives much of the WE mania, and there may be other cultural issues that make the single glass tube sticking up esthetically appealing. (Consider the famous annual Shinto ceremony.) I do not believe it is sound quality driven.

The hardcore triode people in the US, who were doing this before anyone ever heard of it happening in Japan, eschewed the 300B and the 211 and preferred the 10, 45, and the _single plate_ 2A3. They were an underground group and very small. It appears the Japanese single ended designs evolved completely independently-they were working off pre-WWII tube and transformer maker's literature and handbooks. And they were absolutely not interested in "spreading the word". A few dealers in tubes and surplus telecom knew sort of what was up but it was never brought to anyone's attention in audio. If Alan Douglas hadn't been studying Japanese and wrote "Tubes In Japan", I'm sure no one reading this would have heard of it either.

 

This reminds me of Sakuma-san. The video is interesting, even for those that don't understand Japanese.



jeff

 

Thanks guys, for all your comments....very helpful and informative.

I think Paully is right, I'd really have to hear a pair to see if I like then any better than my EICO EL84 / 6BQ5 amp....chances are I might not, as I love that "meaty" sound that Steve describes, and I play 1950s and 1960s rock almost exclusively......it kind of sounds like the 300B might not be "the tube" for rock and roll".

 

Thanks Steve. Guys, how much could I get a 300B amp for , on the cheaper side?

 

You seriously don't want a cheap 300b amp. Borrow one to listen to if at all possible.

jeff

 

I have his book. Also Asano I and II.

 

Cool!

jeff

 

You probably could build a pair of WE 91 clones, minus the input transformers (which aren't used in home use anyway) and the 300Bs themselves for somewhere over a thousand. You could get someone to build them for you for another few hundred because a lot of people just like building this sort of thing.

They would use common project chassis and power transformers, and would not be any physical resemblance to the real thing.

An acquaintance recently back from Japan says he saw some kits in fabricated, very WE-like chassis for about a thousand dollars each, minus tubes. They had a transformer with the correct center tapped 5 volt winding for the 300s but also 100V only primaries. You can put a suitable transformer in a box to give 100 VAC pretty cheap. Metal case UPSes with dead batteries are free for the hauling around here and you get the outlets and heavy input power cord. You will probably wind up getting on a JAL jet to buy them, because most of these vendors will sell to gaijin only in person cash and carry. Foreign correspondence even in Japanese is generally ignored.

 

Having built some from scratch myself, most of the cost is in the iron (OT transformers, chokes, and PT transformer). If you DIY, you can indeed do it very well for $1K if not a little less. Retail, same build quality, I think it will cost you at least double, if not more. If you can at least solder you can do a kit fro $800 to whatever that will be wonderful.

 

I'm auditioning a pair of 300b Synthesis Celebration monoblocks (Italian) at home right now. Only 10 wpc.

http://www.synthesis.co.it/prime-celebration.php

I have very efficient speakers. Klipsch RF-7II, 102 db/w/m. My regular amp is McIntosh MC275 V6 with upgraded tubes, which sounds way better than the stock tubes. However, I wanted to explore new areas.
The Celebration produces some magical sounds. I must agree with Steve on the macro/microdynamics part. I can hear new interesting nuances that I can swear I hadn't heard before. I've been listening to all kinds of music I know well and I must say that the sound of 300b also depends on the kind of music you're listening to. Clapton sounds wonderfully warm with the 300b Celebration+Klipsch speakers, but Dylan's "Bringing it all back home" is kind of harsh, so MC275 does a better job there.
I had a chance to listen to the 300b Celebrations with AN-E SPEs at the dealers. The same Clapton CD (MFSL Slowhand) sounded a bit narrow and a bit flat. Increasing the volume made it sound better. But Norah Jones sounded absolutely marvelous with 300b Celebration and AN-Es.

I see only one way to deal with it. To listen to some music on 300b+Audio Note AN-Es and other on MC275+Klipsch. As much as I hate this solution, I see no universal one without making sacrifices.

 

I would try a different 300b amp- what you are describing sounds nothing like what I have ever experienced with a 300b SET. The Dylan album should sound magnificent on a good 300B SET with AN-Es. Norah Jones should sound like s**t on anything.

 

I was testing Dylan on a 300b SET amp with Klipsh RF-7II, not AN-E. As to Norah Jones, it was the dealer's choice. Or maybe it was Diana Krall. I am not that into female vocal. Can't tell one from another, so it wasn't a deciding factor, but the song sounded amazing.

What kind of a 300b amp are you pairing with AN-Es?