Anyone into 'BREAKING BAD'? (part 3)

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MilesSmiles, Aug 12, 2013.

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  1. MilesSmiles

    MilesSmiles Oenologist Thread Starter

  2. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    With that look of utter horror on her face, I don't think neighbor Carol thought Walt was dead; I think she knows Walt is a horrible drug lord who's wanted by a dozen lawmen and has done despicable crimes.
     
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  3. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

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    At this stage of the game Carol knows a lot more about Walt's fate than we do. Can't wait for next Sunday.
     
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  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    And now the AV Club's Stephen Bowie makes the case that Breaking Bad is not very good because it eschews character development for jokes (like with the long side conversation on the doofus' idea for a Star Trek script):

    http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-case-against-breaking-bad,101439/

    I don't agree -- I think this is just a moment for the audience to catch their breath and think about everything that's gone down so far. But I concede that the scene felt like it went on about a minute longer than it needed to.

    Nobody has mentioned how Jesse was throwing piles of $10,000 stacks of cash out the window to people's front steps in one Albuquerque neighborhood, which I suspect is bound to attract attention. I'm floored as to why this idiot can't just grab the cute girl and take their kid and move to a million-dollar condo in Miami or something and live quietly under another name.

    I suspect Jesse's fate will not have a happy ending.
     
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  5. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    I saw an article on The Wrap website referring to the AV Club piece, and I left a lengthy post in the comments section about it -- I'll post an edited version of it here since you brought it up:

    I think Stephen Bowie's piece is wrong-headed in so many directions that it doesn't even need to be rebutted. He clearly has an axe to grind against the show -- he calls it "the most over-praised" of the current age with only "a slim test tube of thrilling ideas" among its "obvious" and "derivative" ones -- and he misinterprets or misrepresents several scenes, plot points and characters to make his arguments. So I'll just address the allegedly underdeveloped female characters, and the supposed lack of "humanity" at the show's core.

    Bowie tries to shield himself from criticism when he addresses Skyler by acknowledging that some critics (and fans) defend her against the "harpie" label. But he dismisses her defenders and plows ahead with the tired (and over-simplified) "Skyler is a shrew" lament. Perhaps I was fortunate that I embraced the show late in the game and had to power-watch the first four seasons, but I never saw her as a negative character. The way I saw it, Skyler's behavior in the first two seasons is easily explained by guessing at her pre-cancer relationship with Walt. It seemed clear to me that Skyler wore the pants in their marriage -- imposing turkey bacon on the man's birthday was a subtle but definitive clue -- and that, while they seemed happy and "settled," she was in charge and they were both kind of used to that.

    When Walt starts to behave erratically and evasively, yes, Skyler is at first alarmed and annoyed -- that's what happens when you undermine the partner with "hand" (Seinfeld reference) -- but it became fear and concern rather quickly, and once she knew that Walt was sick, she wanted nothing more than to get him better again. When Walt appeared to continue to work AGAINST getting better, sure, Skyler became exasperated and angry -- that's what happens when a spouse sees their life partner seemingly living dangerously and risking their future together. Maybe you have to be married -- for a long time -- to appreciate marital dynamics, but it seems like most of the Skyler-hate centers on "Why she wanna stop Walt from being Heisenberg? Heisenberg RULES!" This is a problem when a grown-up show is watched by non-grown-ups.

    Anyway, once Skyler begins to give up on Walt as a faithful partner (and marital subordinate), every move she makes -- every bit of her own soul that she sacrifices -- she does for her kids. How can we not support that? Yes, she (like Walt) makes bad decisions -- and the Boeneke book-cooking showed her that criminal activity isn't always a black-and-white decision -- but she suffers over her decisions in ways that Walt never does. Her smoking, the look of dread in her eyes when Marie suggests she take the kids home, Skyler becomes a ghost as a result of the life she's trying to lead and shield her kids from. Her "shut up--shut up--SHUT UP!!" freak-out drew laughs from the haters, but I saw it as a boiling point, a cry of pain and shame and helplessness.

    How is this NOT a fully-developed character?

    I'll spend less time on Marie, but she's a perfectly valid character as well. Not a "major" character, perhaps -- how many MAJOR characters can a show like this support? -- but a crucial one nonetheless. Bowie focused on the quirky character flaw given to her early on -- Marie's a klepto! -- and used that to dismiss her. But her real importance is in (a) her relationship with Hank, and (b) her unwavering love of children and unblinking willingness to take care of Walt and Skyler's -- something I fear may be an important factor before the series is over. In a single line in Season Three -- "Catch the bad guys?" -- Marie told us everything we need to know about how strong her love for Hank is, and when Hank went to his "dark place" after being suspended she dealt with it much more selflessly than Skyler did with Walt. Marie may be a secondary character in terms of plot and screen time, but she is in many ways the glue holding things together.

    As for the "lack of humanity" charge, I hope I've already provided enough of an argument that Skyler and Marie are loaded with it -- so I'm going to focus mostly on Hank here. Bowie dismisses him as a "swaggering chucklehead" in the second paragraph and never considers him seriously again. Problem is, his argument that the show lacks a moral center is built on the idea that SKYLER can't fill the void left by former protagonist Walt, which completely misses the point. As Walt descended into the Heisenberg hat -- creating a vacuum at the show's moral center -- it's been HANK who has grown into the "hero" role. HE'S the one we should be rooting for, HE'S the protagonist of the show now -- and if Mr. Bowie actually watches the show and doesn't see that, then he's TRYING not to. He criticizes the show for presenting Hank as a one-dimensional macho douche in the pilot, but doesn't recognize the remarkable growth of the character (and his importance) since then. It's been consistently established that Hank, while flawed and crass, is smart and good at his job, and uses the "macho" stuff as a mask -- much like the Heisenberg hat -- to hide his own insecurities. If the scene between Hank and Marie on the end of the bed in Season Three -- "I'm not the man I thought I was" -- isn't "human" AND "moral," I don't know what is.

    I could go on twice as long about Bowie's thoughts on Jesse and Mike -- but suffice it to say that I think there's PLENTY of humanity on Breaking Bad; we just shouldn't be looking for it in WALT at this point. Fascinating, realistic characters abound, male and female, and personally I think the writers and cast manage to make even the most minor characters "real" and worthy of our time and thoughts. Wendy the Crack Whore may get about 1% of the screen time that Bubbles got on The Wire, but who doesn't feel for her plight? And who didn't cheer when Saul's long-suffering secretary shook Walt down for $50,000 when he smashed their front door in?

    All of this is not to say that there isn't a way to criticize Breaking Bad. Some have argued that some of the plotting has gotten outlandish and unbelievable -- the plane crash, blowing up the nursing home, the magnets, the train heist -- and there's a valid argument to be made there. I don't mind it, but then, I don't expect the same hyper-realism from Breaking Bad that we got from The Wire. But Stephen Bowie swung and missed in his "case" against the show, and I think revealed himself wanting more to be the (notorious) lone voice of dissent than to actually convince the jury.

    The defense rests. :)
     
  6. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    I think the scene with Skinny Pete and Badger very well might have been their sendoff for the end of the series, hence its seemingly extended length. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the last time we see them.
     
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  7. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

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    Hmm ... I kinda hope not -- but then again, it would be nice if they lived.
     
  8. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    I can't really see them fitting in to the plot for the remaining seven episodes. It really did feel like a farewell scene for them, without making it explicitly so. Still, just speculation on my part. I could be wrong.
     
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  9. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    Jesse has unfortunately lost it. What once was an innocent scheme in his mind to make a few bucks and move on with his life has helped him lose anybody that ever meant anything to him in his life. His parents disowned him, a girl he loved od's and dies(at the hands of Mr. White, of course) another girl who he loves with a kid he loves(and almost dies because of his good ol' Mr. White) get's sent away; Mike, who he got very close to, is dead(even though he can't prove it, yet), an innocent little boy(who might have reminded Jesse of himself for all we know is killed in front of him. Even good ol' Mr. White, somebody whom he respected and cared about, and who he thought cared about him, has literally turned into a monster. As far as he's concerned, anything left in life to care about is gone. I think he's going to find out the truth of much, or all, of the above crimes of Walt's against people he cared about, and where he was talked out of killing him once before, I think this feeling of despair will either lead him to try again to do Walter in, either by killing him or ratting him out. And that is what will probably end up getting Jesse killed, if he doesn't do it himself.

    Of course, he may end up being the one who is left when all the smoke is gone. Who knows?
     
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  10. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    Yep, I agree. Sometimes, columnists (especially on the net) are just trying to generate controversy and get readers incited. To me, the show is damn near flawless, almost beyond criticism. Man, chills ran down my arm when Walt had that final conversation with Hank... and that don't happen too often when I see TV shows. Damned good episode.

    BTW, interesting how threatening Skyler could be against Lydia. I suspect this is the setup for the conflict against Walt: maybe the people she's dealing with in Europe show up to threaten Walt because their supply of "merchandise" has stopped. My guess is she'll be quickly dispatched and her head will be left on Walt's porch or something (I'm just thinking out loud here), and they'll try to force Walt to get back into business.
     
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  11. D Schnozzman

    D Schnozzman Forum Resident

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    Hopefully they'll appear as the wacky downstairs neighbours in the 'Better Call Saul' sitcom spinoff.
     
  12. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

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    I think Lydia will be history next episode. As for any outlandish and unbelievable plots, it a TV show!
     
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  13. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

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    I'm thinking Walt might tell Skyler he got his black eye because of Lydia being thrown out of the carwash. That's about the only excuse I can come up with!
     
  14. MrTrickle

    MrTrickle Forum Resident

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    Portland, OR
    Hell yeah, beeotch! And TwaughtHammer will rise from the ashes in the new spinoff. Calling it now.
     
  15. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA

    I definitely felt the scene with the Star Trek script nonsense went on too long. Probably a couple of minutes too long, in fact. I get it: Jesse is depressed and he's surrounded by stoner comedic relief. Given how jam packed we've been promised the rest of this final run will be, they could have used those two minutes in a better way IMHO.
     
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  16. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Or maybe--just maybe--they are DEA plants and they will play a huge, crucial role in bringing down Heisenberg.
     
  17. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    The other night Vince Gilligan admitted that they had to write some things into each show to give people time to take a breath and relax because the show is so intense otherwise and people would be too worn out otherwise.

    At first I thought Jesse was still clean and was just depressed. I know Skinny Pete was smoking a bong, but I couldn't tell he was stoned until he started smoking a joint in Saul's office.

    The Star Trek talk was fine with me because I knew that more drama would be coming fat and furious soon. From what Vince Gilligan has said, there's a lot of story to go, so we may never see Skinny Pete and Badger anymore. I'm sure we'll see a lot of action involving Jesse, it's just a matter of time.
     
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  18. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    Jesse's character and Skyler's character are listed in the credits for the final episode, so apparently they at least last that long. Whether in flashback or what, I dunno...
     
  19. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge

    Location:
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    It's pretty clear that Hank has to die now because he knows the secret. I loved how Walt basically told him in so many words that he did it without expressly admitting he did it. He didn't deny anything but didn't admit it. Brilliant. I'm guessing the ricin is for Hank but I could be wrong. Obviously, something bad happens and the DEA takes over the house. However, we don't know if there was a hit on the house or if it's DEA related (in the first place). My guess is there's a hit on the house and the DEA has to clean up. (hence the graffiti)
     
  20. I loved how Walt told Hank that if Hank didn't know who Walt was, that Hank should reconsider taking any action against Walt. In other words, Walt is "the man that knocks"!
     
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  21. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

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    I think that when we see the flash forward segment when the show opens that some time has obviously passed. Probably some characters are already dead and disposed of by now and others fates have been determined. I can't wait to see who gets the poison. Maybe Walt himself? The M60 is still in trunk. Maybe Walt has already put it to use? Maybe Walt is already the last man standing?
     
  22. rontoon

    rontoon Animaniac

    Location:
    Highland Park, USA
    Not too much time has passed as Walt recently celebrated his birthday just a day or so earlier.
     
  23. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
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    For the house to fall into that much disrepair and for Walt to take on the appearance he shows it looks like more than just a few days.
     
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  24. jriems

    jriems Audio Ojiisan

    Correct. Walt celebrated his 51st, then 3 months went by (it was mentioned in one of the episodes), then he got out of the biz and another month went by (mentioned in 5.9). The diner scene takes place on his 52nd birthday, so it's 8 months between episode 5.9 and the flash-forward scenes.

    rontoon means only a day or so passed between the 52nd birthday scene in the diner, and Walt's return to his condemned house.
     
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  25. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

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    OK, I see what you mean.
     
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