Anyone sticking with "vintage" turntables?

Here's one that I really, really want:

http://www.toneimports.com/garrard301.html

 

Contemplating whether to resurrect my vintage turntable, I came across this vintage turntable and parts link that might be of interest.

http://www.zenn.com.sg/Analog.htm

I thought the archive of sold items was especially interesting to look at:

http://www.zenn.com.sg/Analog archiv.htm

 

I've had an AR-XB fitted with a V15-III since 1975. I've had other TTs over the years and use a second TT to play newly acquired used vinyl on.

At the end of the day if I want to sit and enjoy an LP or do a needledrop the AR is the way to go - and I still have the "clunky" stock tonearm on it too, not a thing wrong with 'em IMO!

 

Thanks, Robin,

I already suspected that was the case with my old turntable. I'm fairly green with regards to vinyl playback, since I've focused on amps and speakers so much lately, but I know a lot about lack of isolation with this unit. However, I have improved it considerably by defeating all the factory attempts or lack of attempts. BUT, since I'm never satisfied for long, I've been thinking of either some radical "tweaks" or a replacement table in the near future.

What other "vintage" tables should I consider that would offer improvements in adaptability to various cartridges (I'm pretty much stuck with the low mass tonearm if I keep this table) and acoustic isolation? Does the Thorens 160 fit the bill or the 125 mentioned, also?

Walking a fine line between thread crapping here, but it looks like the Music Hall MM7 w/cart at over $1200 is one of the best deals out there (please offer guidance!). What comparable vintage table should I look for that might be less $ than the price of a used Music Hall, for instance?

Any suggestions, recommendations, cautions, or even omnidirectional ramblings will be helpful.

 

I have a few tables and all are 76 to 77 era vintage.

I have this one Pioneer that can track warped records better than any other I have owned. So this is a good one for needle drops. I use a cartridge that will not send big bad bass signal as it rides down any potential warps. That is an issue with even slight edge warps, there is that little rumble of bass even if the stylus makes it and keep contact during micro wavy grooves.

And an old Technics semi auto. The TT bass is really heavy steel, and rumble is low enough.

The trick is to keep good cartridges on these not top of the line tables. Alignment and brand new stylus with a good cart can overcome a lot of shortcomings.

The tip of the day (if anyone wants a tip) is to take the rubber platter mat and give it a good cleaning with soap and water. People spend tons of time cleaning records and forget to keep the mat dust free. So those clean and brand new LPs get contaminated by contact with a dusty mat. If you keep the mat clean always, you won't have to clean records very much, at least not the new ones.

 

I've been using a SL-1200 MKII with the KAB arm fluid damper.
It's works great!

 

Hi,
If you have the time to some DIY, you have to check this out:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1075644493&read&3&4&

Lenco rules!

 

another Empire 208 user. For the money, it is a great table, not to mention they are shooting up in price!. With a good arm and some small tweaks, this table sounds pretty darn good.

 

Thorens TD-160 + SME 3009/S2 here. Scratched an itch I've had for some time for a vintage suspended table, got it for a very reasonable price as well, and am absolutely delighted with it over my previous table (Rega P3)

Dave at vinylnirvana.com always seems to have some nice table/arm combos for sale. He's sold quite a few, is a nice man to talk to/emaill with, and less unpredictable than ebay.

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_for_sale.shtml
http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_sold.shtml

 

I've been lusting after a vintage Empire for years now. Not sure if I can handle a classic 'table of that caliber, not very handy or good with mods. But they sure are cool.

dan c

 

Dave is very good to deal with and he seems to do this to a large extent out of love for these classic TTs.

Not surprised that this combo would sound better than a P3. If you think of the economics involved, it's no surprise you can get more table for the money going vintage, especially Thorens. Thorens TTs from the 70s were mass-produced but still maintained good build quality (it helps that they are relatively simple systems). They are a tweaker's dream too. And there are plenty of parts donors out in the field.

The one downside that I've seen is failing motors -- NOS ones are hard to come by and somewhat expensive (relative to the cost of the TT, that is). But then, other companies offer drop-in solutions with outboard power supplies. Again, an extra expense, but the end result would be an even better table.

 

I have 3 vintage TTs up and running... ARxa w/Shure V15III, Empire 598II w/Shure M97xe, Thorens TD125 MKII w/Stanton 681EEE. All perform flawlessly and sound damned good to these vintage ears. I would recommend any of these to someone looking to spend less (much less!) than $500.

 

Don't forget the SL-1200MK2 belong to both vintage and new turntable camp !

The first batch had some not so minor difference in electronics.

Thank You

 

Looks like Empire Scientific, the company that made the Empire Turntable until the early 80's, is now some electronic parts supplier.

 

I am listening to a pretty well maxed out vintage TT at the moment. Jorge Ben is spinning.

The rig is a Garrard 401 with a heavy Aphelon plinth and a Rega RB300. The Cartridge is a Statement Platinum by Grado. The sound is really competitive with any out there. I also have a Thorens 124 with an SME II metal bearing arm set up for playing 78s. The old SME's really deserve their reputation for musicality.

I have an SME 3012R and Garrard 301 in storage. I want to set them up with a Denon 301 when money permits.

All of them are really good at spinning records. If you go the rim drive route, be sure to set the table up in a very heavy plinth, in addition to everything else already posted about mantinence etc...

The 401 is an interesting table in that it has a much more modern sound, with more air around instruments and voices, than other rim drives.

 

I don't believe you would need to go too vintage to get great performance. I own a Denon DP-62L with a DL-160 MC cart and also own a Pioneer PL-L1000 with a SHURE cart - both from the 80's and both can be had for under $800.00 each. They are superb performers. And with all the money saved you could start ponying up on some LP's!

 

That looks like a Simon Says!

 

I think as long as the turntables were made no later than the late 70s, they should do just fine. I do, however, have problems with the super-vintage turntables like those made in the 60's and earlier, as I think the tonearm design of that earlier age was not so good. The turntable in my father's Telefunken stereo console from the mid 50's look cheap.

 

For CardinalFang,

I love linear-tracking turntable. Unfortunately, my B&O 8002 needs some repair, as the velocity sensor is off, which causes the tonearm to lift prematurely during play. Has your Pioneer PL-L1000 ever had any problems? The mechanical linkage - the moving tonearm - in a linear-tracker is always its weakest link.

 

Not me... that's JimmyNeutron.

 

Ar-XA (Grado Prestige Blue) unmodified
Yamaha PX-3 (Ortofon X1-MC)

 

Fortunately, my PL-L1000 has never needed to be serviced. On this particular turntable the most important thing is to have the turntable level. The tonearm sits on it's own subchasis and skates across the record. Although the arm is helped by motors to keep it parallel to the grooves, if the tutntable is not level than the arm will just zoom across the record. This will put a significant amount of stress on the stylus cantilever and can/will bend it in the opposite direction. Most linear trackers have a motor that will move the arm 100% across the record surface making antiskating adjustments not needed. But the PL-L1000 is not like that. The turntable must be level. Other than that I absolutely love this table. I directly soldered some Phoenix Gold RCA cables and a silver ground wire to the unit's circuit board (the stock wires were crap).

 

I am still hoping to have my B&O 8002 repaired. It is one great-looking turntable. In my opinion, it is also the best looking turntable ever made by B&O.

 

Not sure if my turntable choice qualifies as vintage, but let's say that it's design was introduced in 1972 (and is still being made today, albeit for a far more expensive price tag). Yes, it's the infamous Linn Sondek LP12. If one knows all the little "secrets" and has enough knowledge about this classic, an early or intermediate one can be tweaked quite nicely (for a fraction of the cost of the infamous "Linn upgrades" or a price of a new one). Of course it helps to have some "do it yourself" abilities (as these tables require a mechanically inclined person for initial setup - that's this table's weak point - I could understand why dealers don't encourage their customers to set them up, yet they're simple enough once understood). On the plus side, the Linn is far cleaner sounding in a listening environment where acoustics could easily affect most other turntables(including the Technics 1200). I have a current subchassis version (aka Cirkus upgrade), a Cetech subchassis unit, and my friend has a stock earlier version that I modified (sounds nearly as good as the current version). I have one more that I'm building (have to decide whether to keep it "intermediate stock" or go with my "subchassis/bearing mount thickness" modification that make it sound more neutral, like the Cirkus version). All said, this table is an outstanding value for me (and it'd probably take several thousand dollars more to achieve anything approaching better than what I already have). My thoughts.

 

I consider the Linn LP12 and the Rega P3 to be the top choices for great sound at reasonable prices. I have owned both and they both sound great. One nice thing about these other than simply being great values is that they made loads of 'em both and they are so nice that they are still in production. The latest versions are better of course and each has seen a number of changes along the years of production. AR and Thorens tables are also nice but i find both to be more trouble than they are worth these days. Either of those two British classics will give you wonderful sound at a fraction of the cost of some modern "table of the month" alternatives.
-Bill