AR-3a Limited (1989-1991, Hong Kong reissue of AR-3a using Tonegen replacement drivers)

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by EdogawaRampo, Aug 24, 2015.

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  1. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    Does anyone know anything about these speakers?

    There's a pair available 'locally' (about 90 minutes away) and I'm kind of interested in having a look and listen.
    From the tiny bit of info I can find online, they seem to have a good rep.

    I loved AR in days gone by (the 70s and 80s), but after the company changed from Teledyne, well, not so much.

    Still, these have piqued my interest.

    Any info would be much appreciated.
     
  2. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

  3. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

  4. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    Thanks. I've already been through all of the Classic Speaker forums threads (that I could find, anyway) and still could not get a good read on how the Asian models sound. A lot of people confused the European "Improved 3a" and the "Asian Limited 3a" as well.
     
  5. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    I found a shop in Hong Kong that's also selling a pair and that list an incredible frequency response for the speakers -- that can't be right, can it?

    Have a look (forgive the non-native use of English):

    http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng/used_product_details.jsp?gid=7319

    Rare Acoustic Research AR-3a 90 LIMITED speaker system. Comes with tailor made sand filled wooden speaker pair.

    Acoustic Research AR-3a 90 LIMITED was available at 1990, special for Japanese audiophile market, LIMITED EDITION 200 pieces. Use with speaker units are same grade as CELLO Ltd's Amati,Strad Master and Strad Grand Master speaker systems.

    Type: Three ways three units
    Enclosure type: Closed air suspension
    Impedance: 4 ohm
    Tweeter: 2.0cm paper dome with cloth edge
    Midrange: 3.8cm silk dome
    Woofer: 30cm cone
    Crossover frequcies: 575Hz & 5kHz
    Frequency response: 15~22,000Hz
    Level adjust: High and Mid
    Cabinet finishing: Natural Oak wood venner
    Stand finishing: Satin black
    Dimensions: W36.2x H63.5x D29.2cm
    Net weight: 24kg (Each)


     
  6. darkmass

    darkmass Forum Resident

    It seems a bit unlikely, but perhaps they are (intentionally or unintentionally) mixing a few things up...

    At one time I owned original AR-3a speakers, but in time I replaced them with a pair of AR-11 speakers...which I still use and love. Though at the time of the AR-11, the company went by the name of Teledyne Acoustic Research. The AR-11 is clearly in the AR-3a lineage with 19mm dome tweeter, 38mm dome midrange, and 300mm acoustic suspension woofer. I know that because right now I am looking at the original Owner's Instruction Manual, dated 11/77, which actually covers the AR-11, AR-12, AR-14, AR-15, AR-17, and AR-18 models.

    There is a DIN Specification table in the manual which gives the AR-11's frequency response as 27 Hz - 30 kHz, with the stipulation that the response endpoints are where the response is 8 dB down from the average, with the average determined over the range of 100 Hz - 4000 Hz.

    There is another, more textual, set of AR-11 Drive Unit Specifications (same crossover frequencies that you list) with it stated that the System low-frequency response is -3 dB at 35 Hz.

    Ah, but there is a bit more information in the Drive Unit text. It's stated that the woofer (free air) resonance frequency is 18 Hz, midrange resonance is 400 Hz, and highrange resonance is 2000 Hz.

    Now I know nothing about CELLO speaker characteristics, but it seems to me that your source could be mixing in something related to the woofer resonance frequency and using that as the lower end of the AR-3a 90 LIMITED frequency response range.
     
  7. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    Thanks a lot ... what you say here makes a lot of sense.

    AR-11s were great. I'd like a pair myself. A friend of mine's dad had a pair in his system (when we were teenagers) and we wanted our hands on those so bad. They sounded wonderful. Every time his mom and dad went out for a weekend it was music time.
     
  8. rl1856

    rl1856 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SC
    The AR-11 used the same 12 inch woofer as earlier speakers. The main differences were the dome drivers and the voicing of the speaker. Beginning with the 9, AR sought to achieve truly flat frequency response, which was a fundamental change in how the speakers were voiced. Before the 9, AR speakers exhibited a stair step response- with the midrange level about 3 db below woofer level, and tweeter level another 3 db below midrange level (and about 6db lower overall than the woofer level). AR created updated dome midrange and tweeter drivers to allow for greater output level. The price of increased level was a decrease in dispersion and off axis response. They sounder "brighter" and "flatter", but also different.

    The special reissue editions of the 3a used the new dome drivers, but with a crossover designed to mimic the frequency response curve (stair step) of the original 3a. They are unique, but also an anomaly designed to capitalize on demand.

    Probably a good investment though, but originals would be more desirable to me.
     
  9. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Agreed there, I like the reissue AR3a Limited in it's own right. But when I want to hear an AR3a, it must be a original AR3a. In practical terms, the AR2a is more my choice due to being easier driven and more efficient and similar in sound save for the lowest octave.
     
  10. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    Actually, I'm not so much interested in the 'investment' as the sound. I just cannot get into the forward, bright presentation of the speakers I've been using (which, to me, have a 'modern' sound, that is somewhat metallic to my ears). I can't say I really know anything about these special limited Asian editions, but what I can say was my first set of 'real' speakers were AR-14s, my best friend's dad had some original AR-3's and every time the folks were out of the house we had the all AR system cranked, two friends in high school (mid to late 70s) had AR-9s that had us all so jealous you can't believe it, and another friend got some later models -- 90s or 91s or something, like a smaller version of the 9s-- in the early 80s, and these 'repros' or licensed replicas or whatever they are do sound like ARs.

    I suppose originals would be more desirable to some, but the fact these are in such good condition (i.e. they don't need anything) and can be hooked up and running right away is what's pulling me. I just wish I could get some more info on them.
     
  11. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    Well, I pulled the trigger. This is the sound I wanted. The "Limited" AR-3a's are AR's. They have the sound -- rich, musical and non-fatiguing.

    I'm all excited about listening again, just like I was in 1976 when I got my first 'real' audio system with a pair of AR-14's.

    I realise many people, younger people especially, probably aren't going to hear what I hear with these. But what I hear is soooo much more musical, soooo much more pleasing than what I'd be listening to before, which were a pair of

    Yamaha NS-1000M's

    and

    Diatone DS-97c's.

    With superior mastered sources, like just about anything SH, the Yamaha's could do wonders with their mids and could present a vivid soundstage in the mids and highs. Virtually no bass, but the mids were exceptional. As long as the mastering was excellent, the highs were good, too, albeit metallic. That all went to hell with anything high boosted, brickwalled, etc. Bleeding ears, quick onset fatigue, no fun.

    The Diatones were much richer sounding, not as detailed as the Yams, but able to reach down into bass that was all but absent with the Yams. They sounded good at low to middle/low volume. Turn it up and it all went to hell with 'modern' in-your-face hardness, quick onset fatigue, though not as prominent as with the Yams. The Diatones were fine, even nice for low level listening, but they were huge, super heavy tall boys so it seemed kind of ironic to use them that way.

    The AR-3a Limited speakers are a completely different creature.

    I haven't been able to find a lot about them online except:

    *200 pairs were made specifically for the Japanese market between ca. 1989 and 1991 or so
    *they were similar or perhaps identical to the AR-3a "Improved" models manufactured in the UK for the EU market during the 1980s, meaning they shared a lot in common with the AR-11.

    The AR-3a's are already sounding like a very good match in my system, though I think even more power and current would make them sound better. They are ARs after all. My power amp is supposed to handle down to 2 Ohms, so I think I'm safe at moderate listening levels.

    The thing both I and my wife noticed immediately was the way sound filled the room with the ARs. My wife is a non-native speaker of English, but what she said actually mirrors what you'd expect with these. She said the sound was 'heavy' (the bass) and that it 'filled all the room' (dispersion). Voice is downright lovely. Some Beach Boys Chuck Britz stereo, too bright elsewhere, sounds lush, real and alive here.

    The bass is exceptional for speakers this size. My previous Diatones spec lower and were twice the size, but the ARs sound, even at lower volume, like there is serious power at work in the bass range. Put on some rock and you've got thunder. The Diatones didn't even come close. I don't get that.

    What might be a downside for many modern listeners is the sort of flat, recessed sound you get compared to my previous speakers and more modern speakers. The AR's definitely don't throw all the detail in your face. The upside of their sound is the balance and jeez--the tone. The tones are real. Pianos, strings, acoustic guitars...far, far better to my ears. Piano is incredible on these speakers. And, oddly, there is a lot of detail, much of which is coming from different places in the spectrum. Don't know if the other speakers I used emphasised some things or if the AR's are, but it is different. Sorry for my inability to articulate -- I'm not very audio tech savvy.

    I'd been antsy and unhappy with my system for a more than a year. The AR's have fixed that.

    No, they're not perfect. With some recordings I'm tempted to play with the attenuators, but what I like so much about these is when set to flat you can listen to virtually anything and have it sound good -- even ****ty recordings. Yes, I know many don't consider that 'audiophile', but I think before the 1980s it was. Non-fatiguing sound was a virtue.

    In any case, as far as I'm concerned, these are keepers. These are what I've been wanting for quite a long time. AR is quite hard to find and rare here. The only other pair I've seen was a pair of Connoisseur 50-Ts from the late 80s, but I didn't listen to them. They were a lot cheaper, but they looked almost identical to my Diatones (tall-boy and super heavy), had some kind of polymer looking cones and I'd read they had the modern 'forward' sound I've grown so damn tired of, so I didn't even consider them. Though the opinions I read about them said they were good for late 80s speakers, the forum poster said he preferred AR-3a's and AR-9s, both of which he still owned. That told me all I needed to know.

    Though they aren't the exactly same thing, these speakers look like the very first ARs I heard, in an all AR system in 1974, a system that I thought flat rocked at 45 wpc.
     
    darkmass likes this.
  12. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Wishing you many happy years with your new AR-3a.
     
  13. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    These are soooo much more musical than the speakers I had been using. Smooth and rich sounding. That might not be 'audiophile' to some people, but it's making me want to listen to music all day.

    [​IMG]
     
    darkmass, Ntotrar and Robin L like this.
  14. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member Thread Starter

    Listening to these has changed my view on audio 'detail.' Seems like that term is almost always associated with high end, but I'm hearing detail with these I'd never noticed much before and I attribute that to the different tonal balance these speakers have. The balance is right, where the speakers I'd been using before must have accentuated different parts of the spectrum. Mids are coming out of these ARs that are making everything I'm listening to sound 'new', different and to my ears 'right.' On one recording I listened to this morning, the rhythm guitar popped out and into my attention on a CD I've listened to hundreds of times before yet never really noticed before. These speakers have mid and treble attenuators, but they're set to flat.

    Plus, I have to say again, the bass...It's not booming, but full and solid on recordings that even on those big Diatones sounded like more like a hint of bass than it actually being there. What I mean is, for example, bass guitar that was mixed low like on many 60s and 70s poprock recordings. On my previous speakers you could just discern that a bass guitar was present in the recording, now you can hear the notes it's playing. Better. Maybe that's what's meant by the term 'full range.'

    Anyway, I'm listening to CDs I haven't listened to in more than a year and the sound I'm getting from them has put them back in regular rotation.

    I didn't know what I had been missing.
     
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