Here are the results of the "Led Zeppelin on CD" blind tests all in one place (except for Physical Graffiti for which the test hasn't been designed yet).
Here are the final results for the blind tests on Led Zeppelin's studio albums on CD. I don't have the answer to the OP's question "how can the 80's CD's be better?" but the table suggests that in most cases they are actually the favourite CD masterings. Apart from Presence, the 80s CDs seem to have a certain following amongst blind testers, and regarding the debut album the Diament mastering prevails hands down. Wish @bdiament could see the charts. Mind you, I'm not saying that this table is the gospel, but I think it provides an interesting point of view on the subject.
While it is a blind test, technically, it isn't really that blind. It is obvious when listening to the different masters which is the old one. I wonder what the results would look like if the Diament EQ were applied to the remasters. I'd be very interested to see if anyone could notice any sonic differences besides EQ when listening to samples of all three masters that all have the same EQ.
Just finished (almost) my own A-B-C - loudspeakers, then headphones. Haven't listened to Marino PG, Marino Coda yet. My equipment profile is listed. Made brief notes. Been here over 4 yrs, don't understand charts. I like good sound, but will admit to getting lost "still" when it comes to in depth audiophile analysis. So...I'm no Claus or Esoteric Dave for sure. Just a music fan. I suppose I now agree with some of the comments re: PG "more musical" on Diament. I think I'm understanding what that means - think I'm hearing it. **For the record, I own multiple vinyl pressings of all these. Regarding PG, I recently commented here or on another thread about these. After recent listens to all of these (VINYL) - I'm digging my US Monarch over UK, Davis, & Classic 180 (I have the 200g as well but skipped it.) My notes: can't believe I spent the time on this. Zeppelin/Page - I love you & hate you. SH Forums - I love you & hate you! Had I just kept lurking since the mid 2000's & never committed & joined, I'd have a bunch more money & maybe have stopped at my (for example just PG) cassette, original or repress beat to hell US "who the hell knows vinyl press" & my Marino book style box set copy(I traded all my Diaments & paid some ridiculous at the time - difference)....maybe also the later (which I bought) exact same Marino cooler looking black w symbols & Japan packaging box. Oh...& also the BG 200g vinyl which I bought 2 copies of each title before I peeked at these forums if memory serves me right. The guy at Music Millennium told me they'd be collector items. I had no operating turntable at the time. Went way overboard. My wife was so pissed. My intention was to get the tt up & running just because of these (and to revisit some vinyl - mostly Stones, Zep, Cheap Trick, Van Halen & a few others that I had since new & bought everything that came out just to satisfy my fanhood.) Because of these forums & some purchased through these Classifieds: Still just PG example (same pattern for all): Long ago I re purchased the Diament, while lurking I bought the SHM Japan Cardboard sleeve, the 180g Classic vinyl, US Monarch vinyl, UK vinyl, another US vinyl copy, & the Davis Super Deluxe Box. Wash, rinse, repeat. I went more nuts with some other Zep titles...Zep II way insane. My summary from my test. I swear I'm never ever going to get caught up in this again. But guys, early on when these Davis titles were hitting MFitunes - I was quite blown away. I know, the sort forbidden word - "detail" is what I'm going to use here. But, I was hearing stuff on damn near every title that I just didn't hear before. More noticeable on some than others. I see that the Davis - Presence dominated in the final results. It is my clear favorite Davis title. I didn't know and hadn't really read @tmtomh posts until these Davis iTunes started to get introduced. But, as I was listening & comparing to other versions I found myself agreeing with nearly every word he wrote. I'm not sure where he ^ stands exactly on each title now, but I remember listening, reading....& I'll be damned if I wasn't coming to his conclusions in real time. My summary: and I know so many will disagree. All these (now seemingly stupid) notes & all the A-B-C time spent. I'm ok with any version...absolutely any version. Sorry, no disaster (quite the contrary for me) w the Davis PG, or debut. No Marino disaster on II, ITTOD, or HOTH. No Diament train wreck on Presence either. That said, I like to keep all my CDs nicely organized & my Davis copies inside the massive Super Deluxe boxes. So, if I don't feel like it's a PIA, I'll pull these Davis CD copies out & play them mostly for my digital listening while I peruse the books & stuff. I love them all. Yes...ALL! Goosed, remixed?, slammed...whatever they are, I totally dig em. My only complaint- some...re half...er more of the companion discs. Also, I love the BBC Super Box. ***I'll add one detail that I find generally consistent with the Davis issues & that I often noted...and something I love. Robert Plant vocals. They seem up front. I can hear his every breath - it's kind of a trip really. I also thank the OP for this thread. About 100+ hrs or more of my life taken by it, but that's what I signed up for
First off, sometimes people correctly identified which version was which, but that was no means universal. Plenty of people got it wrong. Second, what exactly would be the point of trying to match the EQ across all of the releases?
Some people aren't convinced the Diament CDs are more dynamic, from different sources or trying to convince themself they'll prefer the remaster with some EQ changes. Not speaking universally for all the albums, just in general.
I didn't participate in the blind listening tests but the results made me go out and buy (really cheap) the diamants for I, II, III, HOFTH & Marino Untitled and compare them with my new Davis RM's. I was rather disappointed on the sample size of these tests but I do find the results intriguing enough to investigate further.
I doubt I could differentiate the remasters reliably from each other, but the old original masters contain so much less high frequency content that I don't see how anyone would have any trouble noticing that. Anyway... The point of matching the EQ across all releases would be several. Lots of people say they prefer the old masters because of the EQ. So, if you made the remasters match the original EQ you would be left with the other sonic differences only. Surely, you don't think EQ is the only sonic difference someone could possibly hear. Match the EQ and you remove a variable. That'd leave you with transfer quality, ADC quality, and dynamics to hear differences in, among who knows what else. For the record, people don't even hear EQ differences properly, it seems. I've shown here how some people who mention "it has so much more bass!" are incorrect, seeing as how there was actually less bass, for example.
That's untrue, at least across the board. But the point of the comparisons was not "find the best source to further manipulate", it was "pick what you think sounds best". EQ is a big part of what people think sounds best.
Here's Immigrant Song. -6 to -8 dB correction seems pretty true to me. Shall I do every album? Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better? edit: whoops, correct link now. Obviously. And exactly why I said match them. So you can then determine what else you think you hear.
Yes. Or I should say, the differences vary from album to album. III isn't an indicator of the differences heard on the other albums. But that doesn't make sense. Again, the point was what people thought sounded best to them, not what would be the best source for further manipulation. For example, I might use a source with subjectively poor EQ but a good transfer to create my own remaster, but for listening to sources as-is, I may choose a source with subjectively better EQ but not as good of a transfer.
Perhaps I should rephrase. Are you interested in seeing the results? Because I already know them and don't need to redo all the work just to see for myself again. I did it before and just never bothered saving the results. But if you are interested in seeing them then I can certainly do it again. I won't mind doing the work, but I just don't need to do it for myself so I could use the time on something else if it is only for me. I think A sounds better than B because of the EQ. OK, here's B with A's EQ. Does A still sound better?
Up to you I guess. But I know that III sounds quite different between the Diament and the Davis, while some others are much more similar. Using III as an example of the whole catalog is misguided. Not the point of the comparisons.
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin Corrections required for 2014 to match original master: up to 93 Hz +2 dB 95-202 Hz +1 dB 206-3253 Hz 0 dB 3316-3582 Hz -1 dB 3652-7902 Hz 0 dB 8056 Hz -1 dB 8213 Hz -2 dB 8373 Hz -1 dB 8536-12081 Hz 0 dB 12316-12556 Hz +1 dB 12081-13304 Hz 0 dB 13563-13828 Hz +1 dB 14097 Hz 0 dB 14372 Hz +1 dB 14652 Hz +2 dB 14937 Hz +1 dB 15228-16450 Hz 0 dB 16771 Hz +2 dB 17097 Hz +3 dB 17430 Hz +1 dB 17770-19951 Hz 0 dB 20340-21552 Hz -2 dB 21972 Hz -1 dB lukpak, you've definitely got a point for Zep I. That's less high end, not more, at least past 12 kHz. Small amount more in the short range of 8-8.5 kHz, but meh. I wonder if I'll be eating my words for anything other than III. hehe
Yeah, not that one for sure. I'll do the others as I find some free moments here and there. I find it interesting, anyway. And clearly my memory failed in at least this first example.
This debate will rage on although the blind tests are interesting. Unfortunately for someone who has heard all these CD versions til the cows come home, on my system it's so obvious which version is which. Particularly when played at a volume level of 11 oclock. So the battle rages on, personally Zep is played rarely now, only broken out rarely like a fine wine. And when it does, big surprise, it's the first Japan 32XD Diaments that get the honors in the CD player. But there's no point in joining the fray and getting dogmatic, as this takes on biblical tones on the forum, and no one is going to get converted from whichever pressing they prefer. So let the struggle continue, as it's a safe bet they will all get reissued yet again sometime in the 2020's, as current forum members will be adjusting their hearing aids in preparation for the next round of mastering comparisons and subsequent arguments.
