I added a download from the needle drop of my RL SS 1A/1A close to NM copy, this beauty doesn't even play with surface noise in the lead in grooves so I think it is a great example of what an unworn copy sounds like, there is no processing on this rip. This is done with my high mass Nottingham/Klyne 7PX3.5/Sound-Smith which I think is pretty neutral. I agree with you that the bass sounds a bit tighter on the RL, IMHO this difference is marginal and if I wasn't instantly going back and forth I am not sure if only one (without a comparison to the other) was played to me if I'd be able to tell whether it was the RL or Diament. I did not partake in the blind test for this one, just between digital versions I prefer the Diament however I did this comparison way back when the Davis remaster came out. I can also say I strongly preferred the RL vinyl to the Davis vinyl. These files are matched with ReplayGain, if someone has a more accurate method feel free to modify. Download link here.
Interesting. There is a small difference in low bass, but not huge. They're actually very similar until you get over 11 kHz.
I figured two days was enough time for people to listen. Thanks to _Shorty for PM'ing me the EQ differences between Diament and my RL needle drop. up to 34 Hz 0 dB 35-42 Hz -1 dB 43-67 Hz -2 dB 69-88 Hz -1 dB 90-297 Hz 0 dB 303-334 Hz +1 dB 340-382 Hz 0 dB 389-421 Hz +1 dB 429-472 Hz 0 dB 482-695 Hz +1 dB 708-722 Hz +2 dB 736-1170 Hz +1 dB 1193-1365 Hz +2 dB 1392-2435 Hz +1 dB 2483-2580 Hz +2 dB 2631-3582 Hz +1 dB 3652-4604 Hz 0 dB 4693-5477 Hz +1 dB 5583-7603 Hz 0 dB 7751-8056 Hz -1 dB 8213 Hz 0 dB 8373-9221 Hz -1 dB 9401 Hz 0 dB 9584-9961 Hz -1 dB 10155 Hz -2 dB 10353-11401 Hz -1 dB 11623-13302 Hz -2 dB 13563-13828 Hz -3 dB 14097 Hz -2 dB 14372 Hz -3 dB 14652 Hz -4 dB 14937 Hz -3 dB 15228 Hz -2 dB 15525-15827 Hz -3 dB 16136 Hz -4 dB 16450-16771 Hz -3 dB 17097-18116 Hz -2 dB 18469-19951 Hz 0 dB 20340 Hz +1 dB 20736-21552 Hz +2 dB 21972 Hz +1 dB
Hello, Hoping someone here could please help me sort this out! Basically all I need to know is do the following Japanese CD's listed below for each album have the best original non-remastered CD sound quality?, that are equal to or better than the original USA CD's? In about 1994 I purchased the 2 boxes that contain ALL Led Zeppelin album tracks remastered, in the many years since I've realised with many of my favourite bands I prefer the sound of the non-remastered original CD's!, so I've been working at getting all Led Zeppelin's albums from the originally released non-remastered CD's, seems odd to say but I feel it would be an upgrade to the complete remastered I purchased over 20 years ago! From what I understand the Diament CD's are the 'original' non-remastered CD's, that are generally thought of as having the best sound quality (all I care about here is the sound quality, I don't care about rarity/collectibility etc.), with the exception being Joe Sidore mastering the IV/Untitled CD. Could someone with the knowledge please tell me are the following Japanese CD's exactly the same sounding as the original USA CD's? Are there any different CD versions which have better original sound than these following Japanese CD's I've listed? *All I know about the Japan CD's is apparently the Physical Graffiti misses the 'cough and banter' at end of In My Time Of Dying, does the USA JVC or USA WEA I've listed have as good or better sound quality than the Japan CD? I think if I get my hands on all the Japanese CD's listed below that's the best quality I'll be able to get from CD? Thanks in advance for any help. LED ZEPPELIN (1986, Atlantic, Japan, 32XD-520) LED ZEPPELIN II (1987, Atlantic, Japan, 32XD-565) LED ZEPPELIN III (1987, Atlantic, Japan, 32XD-566) IV / UNTITLED (1985, Atlantic, Japan, 32XD-335, Glass matrix) (1985, Atlantic, Japan, 32XD-335, Silver matrix) HOUSES OF THE HOLY (1985, Atlantic, Japan, 32XD-154) PHYSICAL GRAFFITI (1987, 2CDs, Swan Song, Japan, 55XD-661-2) (1987, 2CDs, Swan Song, USA by JVC, SS 200-2) (1987, 2CDs, Swan Song, USA by WEA, SS 200-2) (1988, 2CDs, Swan Song, Japan, 32P2-2739-40) PRESENCE (1987, Swan Song, Japan, 32XD-628) IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR 1979. In Through The Out Door (1986, Swan Song, Japan, 32XD-423)
Thanks. Do the original Japanese CD's from the 80's I listed have any known issues with Left+Right channels being wrong? I read somewhere within 75+ pages some CD's have L+R incorrectly reversed on Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, Stairway To Heaven and Gallows Pole, also I think someone said 5 tracks on Physical Graffiti but I can't remember the issue there... I know this isn't the kind of detail everyone will know, but hoping someone reading will know if the original 80's Japanese CD's supposedly have any of these L+R issues or not? Thanks.
That's a very good question. @lukpac and @Stefan might be able to help you out when it comes to L/R channel reversals, but I can give you a partial answer. The main Zep album I'm aware of that has L/R channel reversal issues is the first album. If memory serves, the original 1980s CD mastering (the Diament mastering on the Japan CDs you listed) has an opposite L/R channel orientation than the 1990s remaster (the Page/Marino mastering on the two boxes you purchased around 1994). The issue is, it's nearly impossible to say for sure what the proper L/R channel orientation is, because folks have found original (or at least very early) vinyl pressings of Zep I, where the US and UK pressings have flipped channels compared to each other. I believe someone listed a whole bunch of versions here somewhere - vinyl and CD, US and UK pressings, various remasters, etc - and the result was that most (but not all) of them had the L/R channel orientation the same as the 1980s CDs. That said, if you are looking at the 1980 CDs, this issue really doesn't matter because every 1980s Zep I CD is going to have the same L/R channel orientation. Right or wrong, they're all the same as each other (because they're sonically identical in every way). Finally, given that your main concern is sound quality and not collectibility, then to echo and amplify what @Lucidae says above, your best bet is to buy the cheapest 1980s Zep CDs that you can. Because you're based in Australia, the Japan versions might be the cheapest versions available in your local used market. But since the Japan CDs are considered pretty collectible, they usually command a price premium over the the US versions. So just get the least expensive 1980s versions, without regard to what country they were pressed in or made for. You can look on discogs to find the catalogue numbers of every 1980s Zep CD. If you're shopping in the used bins in your area, some easy ways to tell what you're looking at are: 1980s Diament/Sidore CDs: Housed in a jewel case; CD face relatively plain, mostly bare silver disc surface showing, with red and/or black circle around the edge and small black label logo; CD spine is plain white with blue-black printing 1990s Page/Marino CDs: Housed in a jewel case; entire CD face is silkscreened with the orange and green Atlantic Records label design prior to Physical Graffiti, or the Swan Song label design from there after; spine is same color design as album cover; rear insert says "mastered by George Marino at Sterling Sound" 2014/15 Page/John Davis CDs: Housed in cardboard wallet rather than a jewel case; catalogue number on the spine starts with "R2" (disc has same silksreen design as 1990s versions) Oh, also - the forum is far from unanimous about which Zep CDs are the best sounding, for which album. @grandegi ran a great series of blind comparisons, and the 1980s, 1990s, and recent 2014/15 remasters each came in first for some of the albums.
Thanks, I've been reading tonight for a few hours, and there's so many threads on this sort of stuff there must be hours more reading to do!, but I'm pretty sure I already get the idea, everyone has their own opinion on what the definitive versions of each album are for sound quality!, and I now know the original 80's CD's all have the same mastering, it shouldn't matter which 80's CD I buy for each album (although from looking at discogs.com I saw there were some "Club Editions" of 80's CD's which I guess could possibly be inferior quality to the other CD's - kind of why I thought it'd be safe to go with the Japanese CD's as I'm pretty sure there weren't any Club Edition Japanese CD's). So I think I have an understanding now of the original CD's except for the Physical Graffiti channels issue. I've read quite a few posts saying it's the last 4 songs eg. The Wanton Song, Boogie with Stu, Black Country Woman, Sick Again. A number of people seem to say this is because it's the last side of the LP, however the last side of the LP also includes Night Flight as first song, so does this mean Night Flight also would have reversed channels and it doesn't get mentioned along with the other 4 songs? Has it been found / worked out if there is a definitive correct way around the channels should be for these songs (if so it would be very easy for me to just swap the channels over to make them correct). However seeing as you explained it has been found original LP's of LED Zeppelin 1 come with differing channels I guess it's impossible to pinpoint a 'correct' version, is this the same case for Physical Graffiti?, or is it more clear there is a correct/definitive way Physical Graffiti is supposed to be? Thanks again for any info!
Oh, until recently I'd never even heard of a "club edition" of any format of album. Club Edition is a new thing to me! When I researched what a club Edition was I read on the Internet people saying things like often club editions would be inferior quality to regular editions, for various reasons, I read people claiming their club editions were audibly inferior to regular editions of the same format, this was for various bands not just Led Zeppelin. So I got the idea Club Editions were likely inferior quality. What confused me even further about club editions was I saw a Led Zeppelin II CD 87 Atlantic BMG 19127-2 CLUB EDITION, however there is the same CD listed (19127-2) that isn't a club edition and I didn't know how to tell which was or wasn't a club edition of the 2 CD's because they both have the same number. Then to confuse me even further I saw the LP Led Zeppelin II CLUB EDITION SD 19127 at discogs.com has the info "Vinyl mastering is completely different for this LP than previous issues", and says it's a 1977 remaster! So it seems to say that club edition is different sounding to the other LP's which lead me to believe even further that club editions of CD's were possibly going to be different to the standard releases. I'd never heard of a 1969 LED Zeppelin II LP being remastered in 1977, I'm not sure what it is exactly! Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
I'm not specifically aware of that 1977 LP, but records were often remastered without any sort of official re-release. Metal parts wore out, jobs were sent to different pressing plants, etc. As far as CDs go, often club pressings were the same physical discs as stock releases, simply with some sort of notation printed indicating it was from a club. Other times the pressings were unique, but the audio was still often identical. In some cases tweaks were made (most often a digital level shift), but it was pretty rare for a club pressing to be completely different from a stock pressing.
I have the SHM box...are they the 1994 masterings? And, at the risk of repetition, am I right in understanding that all the 80s CDs that I see on Discogs are the same masterings so there is nothing special to look out for in that respect?....can it be that simple?
Yes, all 1980s CDs share the same mastering. SHM box is based on the 1994 mastering, but louder and compressed and/or have clipping.
Night Flight is alright. Only those four songs have incorrect channels compared to the '94 Marino remaster, which I believe to be correct.
This is confusing, as last night I read somebody somewhere in this forum on the topic of reversed channels Physical Grscfiti had written Night Flight is also reversed... So seeing as you indicate there is a correct way it should be I take it that means unlike the Led Zeppelin I original LP's the Physical Graffiti original LP's are unknown to have any reversed channels across the different original LP releases? Just trying to figure out if I should bother to swap any of the L+R channels to make them 'correct', but I guess if there's too much uncertainty on this topic I should maybe just leave as is... I also read here something about Stairway to Heaven having reversed channels, but can't remember what format that was supposed to be, or if it was an original or remaster of some kind?
I just checked "Sick Again" (because the solo guitar intro is easily detectable in one channel or another), comparing the 1980s Diament CD with a rip of the 1st UK vinyl pressing. On the UK vinyl, Page's guitar is on the left. On the Diament, it's on the right. So you would appear to be correct. I also checked a needle drop of the Classic Records vinyl - guitar on the left, like with the original UK vinyl. And the recent 2014/2015 Page/Davis reissue CD - guitar on the right, like with the Diament CD.
I recommend you search this forum for "physical" "graffiti" "cough" and "Led" IV "channels" - also "Led" III "channels" As for the rest of the albums CD's are not vinyl the one's you list are are all bit identical. Please be aware for at least 7 years I do not sell CD's in the forum classifieds, however there are those who do. It's your money so do what you wish but I hope you do not fall prey, as I did a decade ago, to a tiny faction of those here with well written posts and what I feel are $ based agenda's. That said I'm also a collector so some of the discs I likely would have purchased anyhow - eventually. Yes and no in the case of PG, III and IV. Take your time do your research. Unlike a decade ago these CD's are going down in price every day.
It is confusing. Just search for one album at a time to see what the deal is with each one. There are plenty of threads, research, and opinions on each album.
Yes and No? Are you referring to just the 'cough' and 'reversed channels' ?, as far as I can tell from hours of reading they're the only known differences across all versions of the original CD's, are you saying that there are there other audible differences in addition to the missing cough and reversed channels? Thanks
He's just saying that some people here have stated or implied that some of the more collectible (and expensive) variants of the 1980s Zep CDs sound better than the less collectible (and less expensive) 1980s Zep CDs. He's not saying that this is actually true - he's just saying that some people here have claimed (or implied) that it's true. It is not true.
I think Grandegi's blind tests were very useful regarding the different CDs. The downloads in those threads are still working I think so one can still do those tests without looking at the results till after! However, what it taught me most of all in comparisons was that my vinyl versions whether orig. pressings or 'nice price' issues beat the hell out of all of them especially PG.
