Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SOONERFAN, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Do the people around here don't like the 2014/2015 remasters? They don't sound that bad.
     
  2. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    A ringing endorsement :p
     
  3. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    They don't sound bad at all. Some of the Marinos are good too. But for a few titles, the original CD's are a lot better. There is just a common misconception that the original CD's are from poor tapes.
     
  4. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    This is a very good explanation of light use of peak limiting. When I volume match with ReplayGain the compression on the latest remasters is not egregious on headphones, most of the differences come down to EQ. It's also why I don't use headphones when two masterings are fairly close dynamic range wise.

    Where I personally have a much easier time hearing light peak limiting is when albums are played loud on good speakers/room. Not including my own current setup in that criteria since it can't play at active rock volumes. On something like a full range high end audiophile speaker setup the differences are much clearer. IMO I think I also have an easier time hearing it since I'm very used to DR 13+ jazz and classical.

    Edit: hmm after posting that I now see @lukpac 's response :D
     
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  5. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    To my ears they don't lol , i've listened to both the originals and remasters. It's not as bad as everyone makes it out seem to be.
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  6. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Seems like some pretty long mic cable length would be required..
     
  7. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    Well they certainly (re-)stimulated my love for all things Zeppelin, so I'm thankful they were done... the catalog needed a new comprehensive remastering, even though they somewhat let the side down with cost-cutting in the actual manufacture of the standalone albums, alas... guess a hefty chunk of the budget went on them super-duper deluxe boxes!

    They sound great... all of them... without exception. And in the case of III and ITTOD, they've never sounded better... buy with confidence, especially the vinyl!!!
     
    Mbe, RangerXT, stef1205 and 2 others like this.
  8. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    They do not!

    Without cough: matrix [disc 1] = 200-2.1 SRC-01 / label = MADE IN U.S.A. BY WEA MANUFACTURING INC.

    With cough: matrix [disc 1] = 3 200-2.1 RE1 SRC-04 / label = MADE IN U.S.A. BY WEA MANUFACTURING INC.

    No doubt there are variations on the above, these are just the copies I own. Based on other re-cut discussions, I would suggest looking for an RE in the matrix code.
     
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  9. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Yes, any RE1/RE-1 pressing should be identical, regardless of the SRC code. The SRC code just refers to the glass master.
     
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  10. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    My bad; I was unaware that non-RE US WEAs also lack the cough. Thanks for the correction. :righton:
     
  11. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    No worries! We are all here to learn. :thumbsup:
     
  12. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    To the threadstarter, if you want to spend the money to get the deluxe editions of the Page-Davis remasters if you can find them, then yes track them down for the extra tracks. Otherwise, no, go get the Diaments used and save your money. The only reason to get the remasters are the extra tracks on the deluxe editions.
     
    Stephen J likes this.
  13. bherbert

    bherbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Africa
    So the remasters don’t sound better?
     
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  14. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    You know, the new Page-Davis remasters don't sound that bad at all. They sound great! They're great albums. But why spend more for a remaster of something that was done right the first time, which you can find cheaper used?
     
    zen, Dave, bherbert and 1 other person like this.
  15. Audioresearch

    Audioresearch Forum Resident

    I have all the versions on cd.
    The Diamond albums not remastered I like the most. Warm analog sound.
    Pleasure to my ears. But the latest remasters are good in. Their own way.
    Buy them and make up for yourself what you think is the best.
     
    Bubba Zanetti and RK2249 like this.
  16. Somerset Scholar

    Somerset Scholar Ace of Spades

    Location:
    Bath
    I play my music at very high volume so I have kept all my Diaments and passed on the remasters. Great that you can find these used at low prices.
     
    RK2249 likes this.
  17. It depends what you like, sound wise.

    I think the first two Led Zeppelin albums are almost perfectly done by Barry Diament (I think for one, the channel orientation might be swapped, but that is easy to fix - depending on how you listen to your music).

    Led Zeppelin III has probably the greatest differences between the various remasters. Most of them sound too bright to me, so I like the Barry Diament also the best, but opinions greatly vary on this album and the various CD masterings.

    IV was not mastered by Barry Diament but by Joe Sidore. It has some flaws (dropouts, not the best tape used). Perhaps the new remaster is overall the better option for IV, I am not completely decided on that.

    "Houses of the Holy", I also think the Barry Diament is pretty much perfect.

    For the remaining albums, I am not completely decided yet. For "Physical Graffiti", if you get the Barry Diament version, make sure you get the one which has the cough at the end of "In My Time of Dying", I think it has RE-1 in the matrix.
     
  18. As a general summary:

    The Marino remasters from the 90's are more on the bright side, and the individual albums have some slight limiting/compression applied compared to the Marino remasters first released on the box sets (and also compared to the original CD versions).

    The newer remasters have better tonality than the Marino remasters, apparently are from good sources but also have some slightly reduced dynamic range (not terribly so, but noticeable).

    The originals don't have any limiting/compression applied and are nicely done EQ wise, but the tapes used as a source have not always been the very best, and they used the analog to digital converters available in the 80's, which are not as good as today's.

    None are terrible sounding or really ruined.

    Don't expect any consensus on this topic.
     
  19. grandegi

    grandegi Blind test maniac

    Location:
    Rome, Italy
    The Marino remaster for me, the Davis is way too bass shy.
    Limiting rather than compression, in my experience. And some of them are on the bright side, some are rather boosted in the mids and sounding like a FM radio. But it depends on the individual album: IV is surprisingly good and Coda is not bad at all.
     
    progrocker likes this.
  20. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    No, those albums were recorded just fine. If it’s the muddy sound that distracts, that’s down to the mixing. Let’s face it, Led Zeppelin shouldn’t be all gloss, but rather emulsion.
     
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  21. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    As the recent comments - and much of the preceding 79 pages' worth of comments - show, it's really a matter of taste.

    I think almost everyone agrees that the Diament Zep I and Houses of the Holy are excellent.

    For Zep II people love the Diament because the tape overload and distortion on the master tape are nicely blended in to the overall sound - that's what gives the Diament its "analogue" feel. And it has tons of bass, which people like. Personally, though, I prefer the new Davis remaster. The Diament's bass is to my ears overdone and bloated (Lemon Song in particular). And - while some might disagree strongly - I think there's a very strong case to be made that of all the CD masterings, the new Davis remaster sounds the most like the fabled Robert Ludwig vinyl cut. (People say the Diament sounds most like the Ludwig, but the Ludwig actually has much different and cleaner bass than the Diament CD, and more top-end clarity than the Diament CD.)

    For Zep III @rjstauber is right: The Diament and new remaster sound very different. Personally I prefer the new remaster, as I find the Diament too rolled off on the high end. It's similar to the vintage vinyl: the famed red label Canadian Zep III is much more mellow and many people love it. The not-quite-as-famed original UK Plum vinyl is much brighter and sparkly, and many people (myself included) love that. I also would say that the new remaster CD captures more of the magic of the UK Plum, than the Diament CD captures of the red label Canadian. But others might disagree.

    For Zep IV, @grandegi did a blind test and forum members selected the Marino. I personally don't like any of the Marinos, and I don't like any Zep IV on CD. But I'll probably take the original Sidore in a pinch.

    For PG the situation is similar to Zep III - very different sounding, and honestly I think both are great, just in very different ways. The Diament is warm sounding and the drums sound fantastic. The new Davis remaster is much clearer, with different but still very good and impactful drums.

    For Presence and In Through the Out Door, my view is the new remasters all the way , especially Presence. Presence is perhaps the weakest Diament IMHO.

    For Coda, I like the new remaster best for some tracks, but for others (We're Gonna Groove and I Can't Quit You Baby) I don't like it at all. So while I think the remaster sounds slightly better than the Diament for the majority of the tracks, I would choose the Diament because it doesn't have any glaring sonic problems on any of the tracks.

    So my recommendations, assuming you want to minimize duplication:

    I: Diament (and the Davis deluxe if you want to check out the live 1969 Paris show on the companion disc)
    II: Davis single disc remaster
    III: Davis deluxe, for the sonics and fantastic companion disc
    IV: Sidore
    Houses: Diament
    PG: Diament AND Davis (I think both are essential for different reasons)
    Presence: Davis single disc remaster
    ITTOD: Davis single disc remaster
    Coda: Diament for overall sonics, Davis deluxe for the amazing 2 CDs' worth of companion material
     
  22. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    These three are not Barry's fault. Every one of them I've heard, except this mid 1986 release of ITTOD have that kind of slightly blurred/squeezed and bright sounding edge on the top end and don't sound as relaxed as his previously mastered albums. I have suspicions that it's more because CD production pressing plants speed had been increased from its former real time speed. There could be possibly other 1986 ITTOD releases that sound fine too although I don't know for certain. For Presence and Coda there are only mass 1987 CD releases unfortunately.
     
  23. _Shorty

    _Shorty Forum Resident

    Yep.
    Zep 1 Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
    Zep 2 Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
    Zep 3 Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
    Zep 4 Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
    HOTH Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
    PG Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
    Presence Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
    ITTOD & Coda Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?
     
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  24. deredordica

    deredordica Music Freak

    Location:
    Sonoma County, CA
    It's simply a matter of taste. I tend to go for remasters in general because I listen to CDs in the car, where I like it loud and full (but not too loud or brickwalled). Those '80s discs are, as many people say, "tinny and flat" sounding. Many are fine, however. That last batch of Zeppelin remasters sound great to me.
     
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  25. ynnek4

    ynnek4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I had the every digital version possible and I much prefer the newest 24/96 versions.
     
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