Not a bad effort, but I or anyone else could easily have come up with the same modification to the Diament file to make it sound like the Davis. As for the actual content below 150Hz, I'll have to wait until I'm at home and able to check it with a spectral viewer to see if it matches the Davis. I will say however that simply modifying the material below 150Hz on the Diament would not account for the full narrowing we hear in your sample. In other words, a real elliptic filter would not move the high frequencies towards the center. I don't have Audacity installed as it's a freeware program that's noted for mangling high-resolution audio so it's hard to take seriously. I can however easily apply 6dB and 12dB per octave high-pass filters set to 150Hz to the Side channel. In fact, to reduce remble in my needledrops I sometimes do just that and I can tell you that applying such a filter set to 150Hz would not leave the content in the Side Channel that exists in that of the Davis HOTH. Yes, as I just wrote, the elliptic filter emulation in Audacity would not narrow the highs the way they are in your sample, so this would seem to support my theory that Davis actually narrowed the overall width during his mastering. I'd be more apt to take the word of Barry Diament, who actually did the CD, who said he didn't remember any edits on the tapes he used for Zeppelin. What the Kramer tweet box versus the picture in the Deluxe Edition? This is hardly proof that the Davis version used the anymore than saying the pictures in the book were taken in the studio while they were recording. We know they weren't! I have yet to see you come up with any actual facts. Only speculation. I repeat, unless you were there in the room with John Davis or else he or Jimmy Page told you the tape was a production copy, it is still speculation on your part.
I don't know what you're trying to say, because that's exactly what it did. This isn't a theory, I applied the processing and uploaded the clip. It wouldn't narrow the highs? It did. As one would expect. You're more apt to take the word of somebody who repeatedly stated that the work he did was a long time ago and that he didn't remember all the specific details over the actual aural evidence? Not to mention the fact that Zal *did* remember seeing edits when he worked with the tapes? It is quite rude to keep stating this when it isn't true. Please stop.
Stefan spouts speculation as fact, and then eschews the facts by ignoring analytical evidence and calling it speculation. And those who disagree are "trolls". It's maddening and not worth the effort, as he has an ovbious agenda and no interest in listening to reason.
A high-pass filter that's supposed to roll off frequencies below 150Hz at a rate of 6 or 12dB per octave (depending on which type used) should not affect frequencies in the upper midrange ("high pass" means the highs pass through unaffected). If it does, it's not correctly implemented. If you don't understand how elliptic filters work, Google them. You'll find explanations that show they should do absolutely nothing to mid or high frequencies! Yes because the only aural evidence you provide is a file you created using software that's not considered professional by any means. As for your speculation about the sound at the end of the Crunge, it may or may not be so. Unless you actually have the tapes to look at, it's still be definition speculation. Look it up in a dictionary! It's quite rude to represent your theories as fact when you have no way of knowing if they are in fact true. I guess I was wrong to take you off ignore. Easily fixed. I'm done with this.
Unfortunately, you're wrong. They affect higher frequencies much *less* - that's what the 6dB/octave roll-off is - but they certainly affect them. As noted: "Elliptic EQ high-pass filters the difference, or "Side" information, to convert low frequency vertical modulation of the cutter head to lateral. Elliptic equalizers (EEQ) historically had 6 dB per octave filter slopes. When Side is high-pass filtered to provide EEQ, a low-pass response, also at 6 dB per octave, is created in the stereo crosstalk curve. When elliptic equalization is used to make low frequencies mono, midrange separation and stereo imaging are impaired at a 6 dB per octave rate." Elliptic Equalizer Boards and Kits Which is exactly what is present on the Davis remaster...and my processed Diament clip. You're free to go ahead and do the same thing. Pass the Diament CD through an elliptic EQ and see what you get. If there's another reasonable explanation for what is seen/heard on the two versions, I'm ready and waiting to hear it. Because the aural evidence is 100% consistent with the Diament CD being mastered from the master tapes, and the Davis remaster being mastered from EQ'd cutting tapes.
How so? He felt they were most likely copy tapes because he didn't recall seeing any edit splices in the tapes he was given. Had he said this once, I might believe he was mistaken, but as you can see in post 2105, Diament said several times that it's unlikely he had master tapes to work with. That's conscients with what John Davis said as well So two professional mastering engineers who actually did the mastering versus some prison website master playing amateur audio sleuth on an internet forum I know who I believe
Regarding professional mastering engineers who actually did the mastering: Regardless of who said what, however, the proof is in the pudding: the actual audio. Derogatory remarks towards me don't change that fact.
Indeed. Barry made a point of saying how iffy his memories were over and over when he was a member here. If only he’d known we’d be parsing this stuff 30 years later, I’m sure he’d have taken good notes
Nope: "I don't remember seeing any edits -even between tracks (but this could simply be my memory)." Zep remasters: 1993 or 2003?
No. The words you used are 'he felt', 'he didn't recall' and 'unlikely' - these phrases are not 'fact'. Maybe Barry cannot remember for sure ? Please don't try to twist things.
No. I am reading your quote, the words you actually said. . If it is incorrect or misleading then tell us.
Your accusing me of attempting to twist things is offensive. If you choose not to read the statements Barry himself made and see a consistent message then that's your problem.
Indeed. More statements from him regarding the original CDs: "Sorry to invoke the "I don't remember for sure" clause again. (If I were a politician, you could be sure I was lying. ;-} )" "I wish I remembered but I'm sorry to say I don't." "Then again, we're talking about things that are just outside of the reach of my memory." Etc. And note the bolded portions here: "Aside from the two albums mentioned above, where, if memory serves (a big "if"), I had EQd limited copies (aka "production tapes") to work from, all the rest of the Led Zeppelin CDs I mastered were, to the best of my knowledge, made from flat copies of the original tapes. There may be a tiny chance one or more of these was an original tape but I would doubt this for a number of reasons. (At the time, I was told Jimmy Page supposedly had the masters but could not locate them. I do not know whether these were somehow located for other masterings or if they in fact, used the same tapes was given to work with.) So, I hope I've made it clear that there is a very significant difference between a "production tape" and a flat copy of the original. Also, I hope it is clear that all but two of the CDs I mastered were to the best of my knowledge, from flat copies of the originals (to which I applied some gentle EQ and some level changes but no compression whatsoever)." Now, I'm in no way implying that Barry's memory was *necessarily* wrong. But he repeatedly went out of his way many times to indicate that his memory wasn't necessarily crystal clear, which isn't the least bit surprising since the discussions about the tapes were over 20 years after he touched them. And is of course totally understandable. We're interested in details that may have not even been noticed at the time, forget remembered 20 years later. As @curbach just stated: That Zal believes that some tapes *were* masters is nice to know, but of course, he was also recalling things several years after the fact. But regardless, the audio itself is quite illuminating, and probably shouldn't be ignored in favor of faded memories for anyone interested in getting to the bottom of things.
I like the extra content on the Davis remastered and they are louder to my ears so I play them in the car. At home I use Diament/Sidore originals.
I am talking about YOUR comments on this thread. Not Barry's. You use the phrases 'he felt', 'he didn't recall' and 'unlikely' and try to make them appear fact. That is twisting things - as it appears Barry really can't remember. Yes, it may be my problem, but seeing I am totally neutral in this discussion, you are losing points faster than West Bromwich Albion.
Of course it is a contest, between two people with two differing views. If not, just don't comment - ever again on the topic.. To me, you lost. You have not provided any info. to support your claims. You are using terms like 'he felt', 'he didn't recall' and 'unlikely' as if they are fact. You are not responding to the other Gentleman's last comments (saying he is wrong is insufficient). You
