Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SOONERFAN, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    My guess is that they just grabbed whatever tapes were handy in the UK, or else they majorly screwed up.

    Of course, this didn't stop Jimmy Page and John Davis from badmouthing the old CD's and talking about how they used amazing, never-before-heard master tapes for the new ones, which is clearly a load of bull.
     
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  2. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    From what I have been reading here and researching it appears as if (with one or two exceptions) that the 80's Zep disks are the best.

    "..Never heard before new Master tapes..." Huh? What the fudge?! Is that what Jimmy is saying? I thought he was off drugs....
     
  3. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    P
    So....mmmm.....The remaster of "Houses Of The Holy" isn't plagued by hiss? I wish I had all the 80's, early 90's and remastered Zeppelin disks to compare with but I don't.
     
  4. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Doesn't come down to the same thing? A matter a perspective I suppose.
     
  5. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    Listen for yourself if you're not inclined to believe what someone else says.
     
  6. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I think you misunderstood my post. I don't have all three mastering jobs so I can't listen and compare. That's pretty clear. And when did I assert that I was calling a member on here a liar? When did I say I didn't believe him or her?I am listening to everyone. I RESPECT what ever member has to say.

    Or did I misunderstood the tone of your post?
     
  7. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    Maybe I misunderstood yours? If so, sorry!

    At any rate, none of the Houses of the Holy CD masterings is plagued by hiss.
     
  8. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    I would say that there are a lot of the remasters from the most recent batch that beat out the 80's to me by far (LZIII, Presence, ITTOD, even LZII). Houses and Physical are the only ones that I would say I prefer the Diaments although the remasters of those are great too

    Although again there really is no "best" - just personal preference!
     
  9. simon-wagstaff

    simon-wagstaff Forum Resident

    I like the hi rez versions and got rid of my CDs. Just sayin'.

    Why all the angst?
     
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  10. blaken123

    blaken123 Your Greater Tri-County CD Superstore

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Just commenting on zep IV cause that's the one I've A-B'd the most... The Marino/Page version of Zep IV sounds crystal clear to me... Just compressed. Sidore also sounds clear but there might be a hint of analog artifacting there... Can't quite put my finger on it and I don't mind it. I prefer the Sidore because there is more subtle texture information in the guitar tones and less interference between the elements in the mix (=relative lack of compression I suspect).
     
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  11. telepicker97

    telepicker97 Got Any Gum?

    Location:
    Midwest
    OG Vinyl
    Diaments
    Davis Vinyl
    Davis digital
    Various needledrops

    Are all options
    ______________

    any Marinos

    Are not.
     
  12. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    Well, a lot of people who comment here have no point of reference, or are incapbale of doing a simple A/B comparsion, but they will give you their opinion anyway and say that something sounds "fine" or even "great" at face value. With HOTH, it's a moot point from an "audiophile" perspective, because both Marino and Davis used a very crappy source tape. There are also lots of assumptions that the latest remasters are from the best possible sources, which is definitely not always the case, Page's promotional hype be damned. Some folks will throw a fit or become indignant if you point this out, as you can see. So you have to wade through a lot of BS and psuedo-scientific nonsense to get to the truth. It's a matter of fact as opposed to a matter of perspective, I think.
     
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  13. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Forum Resident

    Location:
    Melbourne
    For me, the essential Diament Zep CDs are:

    I (no question in my mind)
    II (debatable)
    III (debatable)
    Houses (no question in my mind)
    PG (debatable)

    I'm still undecided on the Sidore IV vs the Davis remaster, but the remastered Coda is essential for the extra tracks IMO.

    YMMV, etc...
     
  14. telepicker97

    telepicker97 Got Any Gum?

    Location:
    Midwest
    This thread inspired me to seek out a Japanese 32XD 1st press of the Diament HOTH...$33 shipped.

    Great deal, but...

    I need to stay off this forum.
     
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  15. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I sure hope it had an OBI.
     
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  16. telepicker97

    telepicker97 Got Any Gum?

    Location:
    Midwest
    Hahaha, no - there's a reason it's $33/shipped.

    I don't have an OBI decoder, and they don't play in my CD player or on my turntable :D

    I mean, the US Atlantic version sold at Walmart in the 80s fetches $20-25 shipped - I may as well spring $10 extra for the goods.
     
  17. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    I haven't bought an HOTH in years, but the last one, a target cost £10, and I didn't consider it such a good deal (although I probably did ok). I'm not sure I would pay more than £5 for any silver stock copy with an SRC matrix.
     
  18. telepicker97

    telepicker97 Got Any Gum?

    Location:
    Midwest
    Well I don't have time to go out and scour the useds, and the Japanese 32XD is simply becoming more and more rare...

    The Diament Houses of the Holy was the first actual CD I picked out and purchased - it was the only Zep I didn't own on vinyl or cassette at the time.

    Sentimentality.
     
  19. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    It didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't have bought the Japanese disc, or that you paid too much, only that silver stock US copies shouldn't really be $20-25 since they were in production for a long time (the Marino remasters came out in 1994). The original Doors CDs on the other hand were replace in 1988, and are quite hard to find. I think HOTH and PG were the last two Diaments that I found when I went searching for them. I added the target later.
     
  20. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    Lukpac has provided evidence in support of the notion that Davis used a copy tape, perhaps an LP cutting master, for one side of Houses.

    Beyond that, there's no evidence that Marino and Davis used a "very crappy" source tape for HOTH - and there's nothing in your comment to suggest that you have any more claim on "fact" than those you are criticizing. Ditto for "throwing a fit or becoming indignant": In my estimation, those in this thread who say they like some or all of the Davis remasters don't generally seem to have any need for others not to like the Diaments (there are exceptions of course). By contrast, a notable portion of those who strongly prefer the Diaments seem to get rather exercised at the notion that others might have different preferences (again, not all, not nearly all - but in my view a good number nonetheless).
     
  21. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Definitely an LP cutting master, and for both sides. The same seems to be true of the Marino, although I haven’t yet compared as closely.

    Looking forward to doing some PG investigation, but I haven’t gotten that far yet.
     
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  22. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Cool. The fault is partially mine. I keep forgetting that subtext is very hard to show on the web. No harm done.
     
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  23. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Question. So the 1990 Box Set does not use the same mastering tapes as the 1994 remastered CD'S? Do they sound like the 1993 Double Set? Although the 4 disk set sounds like it's been put through some filter/ life sucking machine the 1993 follow up double set is great.
     
  24. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    I'm no expert, but according to discogs, both the 1990 and 1993 sets were remastered by Marino. However, they are not the same mastering (they have different copyright dates). The 1990 set has a lot of mix credits. Was it remixed?
     
  25. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I often come here for clarity. As in, what mastering should I buy of said artist. for example, I mention what is the best version on CD of Big Mama's Wilson - Live in Downsview 1968 and I get this:

    Member A: The original vinyl is the best but it's not the whole show.

    (Note I said CD!)

    Member X: That release is garbage! They dramatically cut the bass on that record and it's half the show. And the mix is crappy.

    (Member X doesn't say why the mix is crappy but Member X states it like it's a fact.)

    Member A: If you don't like the vinyl pick up the Japanese CD MJBS-22M. It's not the whole show but the sound is smooth and life like. check Ebay $200 - $300 depending on condition. used for $130.

    ( Before I spend anywhere near $130 on a CD I will want more than one members praise. And then I have to be careful. Although most Japanese CD's are superior to their domestic release counterparts I have to be on guard for the odd member that worships the Japan compact disks. They will say they sound the best even when they haven't heard them.)

    Member T: The Capitol 1984 release is re-mixed from the analog multitracks and is the whole show. All 72 mins and 38 seconds with no edits.

    Member A: That Capitol release was remixed back in 1978 for a West German double album release but the CD was made from a copy tape. And they hyped the bass. Buy the original vinyl. Much better.

    (Remember when I mentioned I was only interested in the CD? )

    Member K: None of those sound good.
    (Has not heard any of these releases)
    The remastered 2010 version is the whole show plus bonus tracks and rehearsals. And was remixed from the original multi-tracks. It's a much better release.

    Member T: They remixed it with digital reverb and over compressed it and hyped the top end. Get the Capitol release.

    (Member T sights no sources for his/her claim but many more members will repeat and spread his words as if they were Gospel. Before long they will become fact.)

    And this will go on and on ad infinitum. Yes, you have all read a thread within a thread. Oh, for those who are curious, Big Mama's Wilson - Live in Downsview 1968 is fictional. Members A, K, T and K are purely fictional and do not represent anyone on these sight. LOL.

    I will never comment on two masterings unless I have heard them both on MY SYSTEM.
     

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