Are the loudness wars over?*

I think you're confusing compression with compression.

 

it aint over till the fat lady stops clipping, but an unexpected ally has emerged that could make a big impact.

Why Spotify Lowered the Volume of Songs and Ended Hegemonic Loudness

 

Still do not understand this. As loud as before or after what song?

Is there some built in assumption that every song on every new DR5 album is going to to played on a radio or streaming service?

And even so - all songs from all digital releases are "pre-treated" by Apple, Spotify, YouTube etc with volume leveling info to ensure there is no possibility of being louder (or softer)

There is no point to mixing anything to DR5 anymore.

VP

 

Over compression is killing music! Sgt Peppers remix on CD was the last straw. CDs are capable of greater dynamic range than vinyl so will the people responsible just step back and realise what 'you' have done! I spend most of my time now seeking first pressings, gold CDs, target CDs, on the resale market. CDs need lower maintenance and are not prone to pops and clicks like vinyl. I will stand by this medium for as long as there is the hardware.

 

Volume leveling deals with peaks. A DR12 recording will not seem as loud as a DR7 with the same peak leveling. And that would make the person listening to ear buds on the subway very unhappy and we can't have that.

 

How about the Pepper remix on blu ray? All that resolution available, unused.

But it was a (mostly) beloved release. The war is over, the armies went home.

 

I read that a few weeks ago, that chart is incorrect on levels. If the recording has been shaved (clipped to 0) during mastering, no amount of re-leveling is going to improve the SQ (dynamics). The damage is already done.

 

I think as long as the general public continues to believe loud is better, and is unaware a loudness war even exists we'll continue to get loud masterings.

 

No, it's definitely NOT over.

Most new releases have a very poor dynamic range (DR6 seems to be the industry standard).

 

Not even close to being over, unless you construe that to mean it has become the norm ... what could be one of the best little rock records of the year, but gets kind of tiring after a couple songs ...

Code:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Brand New / Science Fiction
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR5        0.00 dB    -8.93 dB      6:17 01-Lit Me Up
DR2        0.00 dB    -4.23 dB      3:43 02-Can't Get It Out
DR4        0.00 dB    -6.21 dB      4:36 03-Waste
DR10       0.00 dB   -11.63 dB      3:16 04-Could Never Be Heaven
DR5        0.00 dB    -7.76 dB      5:34 05-Same Logic/Teeth
DR4        0.00 dB    -6.25 dB      5:02 06-137
DR3        0.00 dB    -5.89 dB      5:15 07-Out of Mana
DR5        0.00 dB    -8.33 dB      6:52 08-In the Water
DR7        0.00 dB    -9.32 dB      3:37 09-Desert
DR4        0.00 dB    -7.52 dB      3:55 10-No Control
DR4        0.00 dB    -6.80 dB      4:53 11-451
DR6        0.00 dB    -8.31 dB      8:28 12-Batter Up
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  12
Official DR value: DR5

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           842 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

 

Am you sure?

 

Yes, when I say over, I mean we lost.

 

Nope.

 

Not even close, and that's why my CD purchasing has drastically reduced for new releases. Combine that with the fact that I don't have the money or space to accumulate a massive LP collection and I'm in quite a bind with my little music hobby with regards to new releases.

The last straw for me was the latest Spoon album. Sounds horrific on CD, can't even listen to it it's so bad. It makes me think I may as well turn to streaming from now on to keep up with current music and keep my physical purchasing to older/audiophile/MoFi releases.

 

Loudness War will never die. Once it came it will stay.
We really need more recent music to enjoy via headphones. What is wrong with those people?

 

I thinks he are.

 

Sadly, I come across comments online where people say "who cares" or "stupid nerdy/hipster" comments with respect to the loudness wars.

 

They just can't be real music lovers.

 

Actaully a lot of people care, it's just more people don't. But that's always the way it is with audiophilia. I don't understand a comment like this. The average listener has never cared about good sound, the average listener listens to crappy sounding gear. If course no one who listens compressed streams from their phones via earbuds cares. Audiophiles have always cared about things different than what the average listener cares about. And sometimes they become things more people care about. Certainly it was audiophiles who kept vinyl alive lo g enough to have its little recent resurgence. In what way is it relevant to audiophiles what average listeners care about?

BTW, I think you've misunderstoond or are ignorant of the meaning of the phrase "loudness wars," the metaphorical "war" was between artists and engineers each of whom seemed to be in a war with the others to make their records pop more on radio by seeming louder than the next one (average loudness, even the quiet part). It was a kind of "arms race" metaphor. Notba war between pro-excessive compression and anti-excessive compression, as your post seems to be using the phrae.


FWIW, I actually think that the agitation over this issue among people who do care -- audiophiles, engineers, many artists -- has improved things. There are still plenty of super squashed pop records being made and super hashy squashed rock records. But there also are even pop records I hear now with space and breathing room in the dynamics, like this year, Selena Gomez's "Bad Liar." You would have never heard that 5, 10 years ago. Of course the record wasn't a big hit either (even though I thought it was great), and maybe there's a relationship. I see someone mentioned the same thing about the AX7 record. We'll see what the future holds. But no doubt for the last 20 years hashy horrible sound as a result of overcompression in an attempt to get average levels right up against (and often over) the distortion line and to ensure that the quiet nominally contrasting parts of a performance are as loud the loud parts has become the norm.

I also think looking at the raw DR data tells you basically nothing about how a recording sounds. There are contemporary records squashed down to a narrow dynamic range (of music that already is not that dynamic) that don't sound like overdriven hash.

But really, why should we care what the average consumer thinks is good or good enough? When has that ever been the audiophile yardstick? This is an audiophile forum hosted by a mastering engineer who works in the audiophile market, what's the point of saying most people don't care? We all know that. Most people don't care about depth of soundstage or about treating their rooms to deal with speaker boundary interference response and room mode cancellation and reinforcement or about any of the things we care about. That doesn't mean we don't, we shouldn't, or that our systems don't sound better than theirs. Most people are satisfied with frozen chain fast food too, doesn't mean that's the best food out that, that someone shouldn't seek out other, fresher, better food.

What’s your point, that audiophiles should be satisfied with the same crappy sound that everybody else thinks is fine?

 

For me, it is. I just buy original pressings of vinyl and bypass it altogether.

If the music industry is hellbent on compressing and limiting dynamic range, they can do it to their heart's desires and I'll stick with my vintage pressings which sound (GASP!) musical.

 

Well, they were mainly YouTube comments (of course, it's hugely toxic, among many other websites out there), but I wouldn't be surprised if the large majority of the people beyond is largely apathetic about it.

@c-eling You're correct that Spotify's attempt will not recover any of the lost dynamics as the article kept conflating "loudness" with "volume" and not the squashed dynamic range, which is Spotify's version of the Replaygain feature found on Winamp and foobar2000.

 

In quite a few cases, it's the only way and this is also applies to more modern albums as well. Generally, I pay more attention if the album on LP is explicitly mentioned that it has a dedicated master by the label/artists.

 

It's a strange situation about this. I've seen an interview from Charlie Starr (Blackberry Smoke) where he said that the band really cares about this loudness war thing, that they want the best sound for their fans. They released an album shortly after this and guess what ? The CD was compressed...
But some do care, like Axl Rose did for Chinese Democracy.
Actually I always buy the vinyl version of an album. If it's a bad vinyl, it sounds like a CD. If it's good, it sounds more dynamic. I don't know why the vinyl has still this luck to have more dynamic as it's a poor physical media, compared to CD.
Most of peoples don't care about that because they can't/don't hear the difference. You had to provide them both version, so they can hear what is behind this "loudness war".
Maybe they will hear it, maybe not. I must admit that on some records, it's hard to spot the difference.
The only "visible" effect is that you're way less "tired" to hear music with a greater dynamic.

 

Why do some people refer to the 'loudness wars' rather than the 'loudness war'? It's probably just me but it drives me nuts!

In any case, it's always seemed such a silly phrase to me. Maybe that's why nobody's listening except us audiophiles!