Are we finally at the end of the journey for newly-developed disc formats?

Long-winded title, I know...

Apart from refining existing technology, is there anything on the horizon regarding disc replay, whether vinyl or polycarbonate? Would there actually be any point?

I ask because I've accumulated - and rejected - a whole host of playback machines in the past to play new formats, and many are now extinct: 8-Track, Elcaset, Laserdisc, DCD, DAT, DVD-A, etc. CDs and vinyl, and even cassettes and R2R, stubbornly refuse to die. I have two Universal players to hopefully cope with all the silver disc options, but they'll probably have a finite life span.

I'm assuming that digital files / streaming is the way the industry want things to go, so will we get to the end of the road for physical formats, or is there some new technology planned to re-sell a whole host of 60th/75th Anniversary re-releases (sooner than you think)?

This is what happens when you can't get to sleep at night.

 

I think they’ll keep pressing vinyl and making cassettes as long as it’s profitable, but I don’t see a good reason to continue with physical digital formats (other than the player market).

 

This is a good point, and I think that the answer has to be an emphatic "Yes!" I simply cannot see how there could be profit in developing new physical formats (disc or otherwise).

The only formats that I have moved on from are compact cassette and VHS, although we are probably close to doing so for DVD and we no longer buy Blu-Rays (HD or 4k) so that will probably just be a matter of time. What did set me thinking when I read your title and post was just how close I came to ditching vinyl and how glad I am that I did not!

While CDs seem to be dying a death as a new proposition, I have many and they are available so cheaply used that, rather than moving on, I am considering buying a high(er)-end CDP to see me and my collection out.

 

I do not see any "new" physical media except improvements or variations of existing formats. Streaming, downloads, etc is where everything is at.

 

Yeah, just like there's not a lot of development going on in new storage media akin to floppy disks and CD ROMs for the sale and installation of software, I doubt there's a lot of development going on in new spinning disc physical media music delivery formats. The old ones can bounce along their niches for years and year though.

 

I’ll respectfully disagree. I think one of the big reasons for the revival of the LP as a viable format IS the physical nature of the medium: the album art, the easy to read liner notes, owning a physical object, having a connection with actual media (watching the record spin) etc. I don’t know what to make of HD vinyl yet, but I think people will try to improve on the format. Granted it will never be the dominant player it once was, but I think there is still life in the format yet.

 

A new hi-res analog format using optical or some other non-contact pickup would be cool, but not holding my breath.

 

Not strictly on topic, but I hope nonetheless interesting.

The other thing that occurs to me is the artist cost of producing LPs vs CDs. I just have a quick look and for 200 single-disc without mastering (LP) or DPP production (CD) the cost of the CD package is less than one-third of the vinyl package. OK, the artist can maybe charge double for the LP but the profit for the artist is clearly less.

Interestingly, the cost of cassette production is about one-third more than LP production!

Whether something like HD Vinyl will ever make it to market in a meaningful way is yet to be determined, let alone whether it will be an improvement and something that we buy into.

 

@box of frogs, it's a great thread title.

The answer is yes, we are done with new spinning disks. What would be the point? Who's going to buy them?

 

Well maybe some of us old geezers will purchase them. I would love to see the movies become available as 8K on some form of physical disc.

I rarely stream a tv show or movie. I refuse to spend all the money required to access all the different music and movie sources with their monthly subscriptions. It was a bit different while I was working as I had more fun money but being retired makes one more frugal.

I also worry about sources disappearing. With various companies purchasing all the rights to individual artists and bands it sure seems like to access their music is going to require even more subscriptions. I know my kids don’t have that kind of money to keep up with all that.

To me, owning a physical disc is permanent - at least for my lifetime. I have purchased many movies and CDs over the last few years that will last us till the end. Even if internet access and cable become prohibit-ally expensive we are all set.

I also have backup players so covered for hardware failures.

 

Us old dinosaur codgers, that’s who! (Shakes fist & scowls)

 

I can't imagine a new physical media format being introduced. Further development of Blu-ray, 8K or other, may be released for a niche market. For this 70 year old, I am set with players and back up players for CD, DVD, DVD-A, SACD, Blu-ray, 4K Blu-ray, and various existing audio codecs on Blu-ray discs to last for the rest of my life. If 8K sees the light of day on disc, I can sit that one out without regret.

Streaming services for video and audio are so good, most people won't mess with physical media now or in the future.

 

I suspect the age thing is key here. All of us over a certain age (let's say 45+) spent our formative years buying physical product. Anyone younger may have started consuming music as downloads (both legal & illegal - remember Pirate Bay?). While it's good to see the resurgence in vinyl sales to a younger generation, I'm not sure that many are fixated on the sound quality as much as the 'ownership' of an actual item, and as a cool way to support their favourite musicians, especially with limited editions. I'm thinking of Bandcamp releases and 'Dinked' editions here.

If sound quality is no longer the key driver, there's really no further need for new disc formats - even though us oldies can afford them, and love an excuse to buy yet another anniversary version of their favourite albums.

 

I hope one day all on line service reaches a level that “Audiophile” specialized service won’t be necessary. All broadcast automatically will be at the highest technical level. Bit of a way to go before that happens though. I think it will be the content choice not the technical quality level we will choose to pay for in the future.

 

I am not sure if you are showing your age here , but most Bandcamp releases are simply conventional releases of an artist's new work (and the occasional compilation). That is one of the reasons that I posted about the cost of LP, CD and Cassette production for artists a little later as so many of these releases are funded by the artists and/or small collectives of artists thereby bypassing the major labels. Yes, one sees occasional single tracks and short EPs, live sessions but historically these would have been released on 12" by up and coming artists.

Dinked editions, by which I assume you mean added tracks, different mixes, etc are variously the domains of the major labels/artists (see Bowie career spanning boxsets, for example) and, of course, RSD, which while it seemed to start off rather independent has become much more mainstream in recent years.

On your other point I do not see any need for new disc, or other physical, formats even if they can provide additional sound quality as that can be accommodated in digital files that can be streamed and downloaded.

I really cannot see the much-vaunted HD Vinyl taking off other than in a very niche sense.

Incidentally, regarding my age comment, I am 59 so am in no position to talk!

 

UHD/4K Blu Rays played through my Oppo 203 are both visually and audibly superior to streaming "4K" (e.g. from Netflix or Disney), perhaps to due compression used in streaming. If I REALLY like a movie, I will continue to purchase physical media. That could be because the Oppo continues to kick a*s as a disc player.

 

My reason for mentioning Bandcamp is due to the 'first friday' offers of all proceeds going to the musicians. A lot of the bands/musicians I support (mainly new British Jazz) release specific variants via BC in limited numbers (yes, I know that other independent traders get 'special releases' too)..

'Dinked' releases are those that are supplied by a number in independent stores - again in limited numbers - that have different artwork/are signed/contain extras/etc. Sister Ray in London is my source for these.

They're just examples of creating a 'collectable' market for band's music that are a marketing-led tool as opposed to anything with audiophile pretensions (though quite a few of them do sound great).

 

4K blu ray discs use compression as well, just less of it (for now). We’ll see what happens as bandwidths get better and better. It’s not impossible for streaming to surpass physical media.

 

There isn't much reason to come out with a new physical media format for the general consumer. Content owners, hardware manufacturers, retailers and customers have become less supportive of a new physical media format.

You can see this with movies. Movie studios are pushing for streaming, over disc sales: streaming subscriptions are a more consistent, reliable and recurring revenue stream than riding the ups and downs of selling individual titles. Manufacturers have stopped making blu-ray players. Stores are devoting less space to physical media. It would be an uphill battle trying to get every player in the chain to buy into supporting a new physical media format.

This doesn't mean physical media will disappear. Say, if we start doing more space travel, physical media may be necessary to take music and movies along. But physical libraries will more likely be digital files that fit on a tiny flash stick, rather than a library of individual discs.

Whenever I've posted on the forum about how much physical media sales have declined, people get very angry that "physical media is not dead!" It's not a black-and-white matter of alive or dead. It's more that physical media is no longer the media for the general consumer. But physical media can and will have a life for a long time as a niche produce for collectors. The industry and music collectors need to get their head around that. You are less likely to see a bunch of new music releases for $10, but more likely to see specialty products like a super-deluxe $100 item.

It's like watches. Everyone used to wear one, but less so now that people have clocks on their smartphones and computers. It doesn't mean watches are "dead", but they have become more like a niche product for collectors.

 

But how many different sources are we supposed to subscribe to at 10-15 per month each to have access to the full libraries of music or video? For movies there is Amazon, Netflix, Disney, Sony and probably several others. Music requires several different ones and increasing. This is just getting ridiculous.

 

Even video games are moving online that should tell you something.

 

I'm an old codger also. I don't own a cd player, unless you consider the old Oppo sitting in a box on a closet shelf. There are 4 cds on there way to me now, so while I still buy physical media, I don't listen to it until it's ripped. As for video, I can't remember the last time I watched a dvd.

It's hard to imagine someone coming up with a new format to fill a small, and I hat to say it, dying off, niche market.

 

Perhaps folks have misunderstood the OP's questions. Music and movies will continue to be released on established physical media for the foreseeable future, but I see almost no chance of any new physical formats being introduced. 4K already has largely pushed past the limits of human sight, no no reason for a 8K physical format. Likewise for hirez audio and human hearing.

 

You’re welcome!

 

I took the OP's question to mean whether the involved industries would likely push for a new physical media format-- not whether continued vinyl manufacture would be foreclosed. And my take is that the streaming model or pay to access (particularly if a "download" doesn't go to the user's drive but stays on a third party platform's servers) confers huge benefits in controlling content.
If, for example, I "buy" a movie on Amazon Prime, there is really nothing I can do with it other than play it, right? If I discontinue my account, my "copy" (resident on Amazon's server) is no longer accessible. This gets to the same place as DRM without coding or encryption (though in the case of Amazon movies, they may also be encrypted, I don't know).
Current hi rez streaming services offer a download facility that does go the end-user's drive and from which further copies can be made, since DRM pretty much failed in audio only (remember the Sony Root-kit debacle?)
I'd appreciate technical input on this from those of you who feel qualified to do provide it. I do know that achieving consensus on a new format is a real uphill battle, apart from market acceptance-- just getting CE, the content owners and other "stakeholders" to agree is probably more, not less, difficult these days.
The pay to access model does have some benefits to the content owner in this respect, except, perhaps, for royalties. Maybe the money is in the advance to sign up a catalog. It sure seems like the artists get the short end. And, from my perspective, large scale acceptance of a mass media format usually has little to do with "better" sound. Consumers want cheap, convenient and easy portability of their "libraries." What say others?