Are you bored with high end hi-fi?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 7_V, Aug 19, 2003.

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  1. 7_V

    7_V New Member Thread Starter

    Can I ask what it is about modern, high end audiophile gear that makes it boring for you and what do you enjoy more with the older gear?
     
  2. Clay

    Clay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saratoga, CA
    For me only.

    I like new stuff like the McIntosh tube stereo set up.
    I like Home Theatre stuff and it is always new.
    I like remote controls.
    I like subwoofers.

    I also like the look and sound of vintage stuff.
    I like the sound of tubes. I can not afford some of the new high end tube gear.
    For me I just wanted to recreate the system I had in 1972 since It was so killer and I wanted to hear it again. It has 60 and 70s components. I get a lot of compliments on how great it sounds.

    For movies I use new 5.1 channel gear and of course for CDs I use new stuff. If I want serious fantastic sound, I listen to a record on vintage tube gear.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Who said it was boring? :confused: :confused:
     
  4. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    Re: Re: Are you bored with high end hi-fi?

    Definately not me ;)
     
  5. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Modern amplifiers; 60 year old tubes. Boring? Nah.

    Regards,
    Geoff
     
  6. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
  7. audio

    audio New Member

    Location:
    guyana
    Re: Re: Re: Are you bored with high end hi-fi?

    Exactly, I did say that that "TO ME"(notice that I said "to me") modern audiophile gear is boring at this point. That doesn't mean vintage gear is better than modern gear. That doesn't mean I will or won't change my opinion in the future. It simply means that at present, I am tired of modern gear. My opinion has nothing to do with the forum in general and in fact, it is likely that most members would probably disagree with me on this one. Basically, for me it is more of a frustration thing. I've not been able to find a satisfying system utilizing modern components, number one, and secondly, it kind of makes me more than curious about vintage audio when an early '60s Harman Kardon tube amp blows away my $1500 Arcam integrated and a pair of $12 flea market special KLH Model Six speakers get me off more than my $1900 JM Reynaud Cantabiles. So I decided to put together a system using the finest and most aesthetically pleasing vintage components I could find. It's not done yet. I may hate it, who knows, but I'm having a blast and the more I hear the more I get hooked. What it all comes down to is that I miss the days when I would play an album and the first thought that came into my mind was how great the music is, not how great the gear is. In short, I'm tired of listening through a microscope. Again, that's just where I am at personally. Don't take it personally, 7_V.
     
  8. audio

    audio New Member

    Location:
    guyana

    This is pretty much exactly where I am coming from.
     
  9. 7_V

    7_V New Member Thread Starter

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you bored with high end hi-fi?

    Why would I take it personally?

    I asked the question because I read your post and wondered whether there was a general feeling of malaise regarding modern equipment.

    It's true that some vintage gear gives amazing sound quality for its price. Sometimes it can be even better when it's retrofitted with modern components or slightly modified.

    It's also true that in some areas the design of modern equipment has gone back to old-fashioned basics with great sonic results. For example the whole tube amplifier rennaisance.

    Many people like vintage loudspeakers too. I wonder whether this is because of their quality or their character - a nostalgia thing.

    Personally, I don't go with any 'ageism' in hi-fi. My current system is a mixture of old and new. The oldest component is a Leak FM tuner (tubes) from the sixties. I'd have to spend big, big bucks to improve on the sound quality, yet it cost just a few £s, used (a £ is the vintage currency we're use over here until they replace it and make us go over to Euroblurgh).

    My newest components are some rather nice speakers by a small UK-based company that I know.
     
  10. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Personally, I view vintage equipment like an antique car. Lots of fun to drive - or listen to. I'm not one of those high end types (even if I could afford it!) who are constantly searching for Sonic Nirvana. My systems have limitations. And they have strengths.

    I can live with that. :cool:
     
  11. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA

    That's what makes audio so much fun, Gary :)
     
  12. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Senior Member

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    Right now I can only afford one high-end system and I chose modern because I knew I would not have the time to do vintage (it takes more time to search it down and to get it repaired). While I would love to have a vintage systems as well, I do not think of my present system a boring, rather I think of it as musical and both quick and smooth at the same time. As to enjoying the music more than the equipment, I see that a kind of a chicken and egg thing. I hear so much more how great the music really is on my present system than any of the mid-fi systems I had before it that there is no comparison. I do not think it is wrong that I am glad that I finally have a great system that allows me to hear how great the music really is. I think what is wrong is to assume that only expensive equipment can be great equipment.
     
  13. Shamrock Audio

    Shamrock Audio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silverton, Oregon
    I went through a period a few years ago where the gear so overshadowed the music that I essentially quit listening. This was due in large part to my being a manufacturer and the business just getting to me. It took quite a while before I could just sit down and listen to the music and enjoy it, rather than listen to the gear to discern faults, weaknesses, anomalies, etc. It became too clinical and I lost interest.

    Sometimes we just take the gear too seriously and lose the music in the process.
     
  14. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Excellent point! :thumbsup:
     
  15. Monsieur Gadbois

    Monsieur Gadbois Senior Member

    Location:
    Hotel California
    Great take Shamrock:agree:, what you went through has happen to lots of so call "Audiophilers".
     
  16. audio

    audio New Member

    Location:
    guyana

    So I am not alone, then.
     
  17. quadjoe

    quadjoe Senior Member

    This is the point I often make to people who are into high end audio. I personally find that when I have spent a lot of money on equipment I start listening for flaws in the reproduction more closely than I would in less expensive gear, and it gets in the way of the music. I believe you can actually enjoy the music more on a mid-range product because you don't expect perfect reproduction so you listen less critically. That doesn't mean that high-end isn't great, it is, but we should never lose sight of the obvious: it is about the music, not the gear.
     
  18. Shamrock Audio

    Shamrock Audio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silverton, Oregon
    I think that this is especially true for those of us who pay our bills through this industry. The struggle to run an honest business that I can be proud of in the middle of an often, uh, "goofy" environment can sometimes get the better of you. Nevertheless, the mere fact that most of us (in the business), have taken something that we dearly love and have a passion for and have made it our vocation causes us to take things more seriously. It's easy to get off track and just a bit sideways.

    That said, rest assured that I truly love watching a clients' jaw drop open and their eyes get big when they hear what we've sweated to make for them!:D There's no greater pay-off than a truly happy customer!
     
  19. Dean De Furia

    Dean De Furia Senior Member

    Location:
    Northern NJ
    I have been leaning toward mostly vintage gear because good examples rarely loose their value. I mean, you could own and enjoy a Mac 240 or whatever for 5 years and it still will probably be worth what you paid or more as long as it's still mint. It just allows you more freedom to experiment without beeing burned in the pocket too much. JMHO.
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Heh, quite a rationalization for using cheap gear!

    The fact of the matter is, I love listening to high-end gear. I DON'T like finding out the price of most of it; it's just outrageous.

    But, it IS possible to get a great Audiophile system consisting of used stuff from the 1990's quite easily and for not too much money, for one of the quirks of many Audiophiles is their habit of trading everything in every two years on the latest and greatest. Therefore, perfectly good high-end stuff from 1997 is out there for not much money. That's how I would start down that road.

    I also like vintage gear as well (ya think?) I would never JUST have a vintage system for playback of music; too limiting (pun intended) and one misses all the beauty that a true modern Audiophile system can reveal in your music.
     
  21. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    South Texas
    Hi,

    I believe that the music is also sometimes lost w/ people obsessing w/ high-end software as well as hardware. More than once, i've hooked people up w/ an awesome Grateful Dead concert only to later hear they didn't like it because it was not as high quality as the commercially available shows. If ya accept some hiss and other imperfections, ya can get back to the music and experience some of the best live shows that may never be released in high-rez.

    -Jeffrey
     
  22. Dean De Furia

    Dean De Furia Senior Member

    Location:
    Northern NJ

    Exactly how I ended up with a VAC pre amp from the 90's. About 1/3 of it's cost new.
     
  23. quadjoe

    quadjoe Senior Member

    Thanks for the insight, Steve! I am very good at rationalizing (my wife is a psychologist and tells me that all the time:D ). I'm not saying that I don't think high end gear isn't worth pursuing, just that we have different expectations from equipment at varying price points. I think that getting a used piece of gear that was state-of-the-art just a couple of years ago is a great idea, after all, I think we are now approaching a level of technology where improvements are mostly incremental, and high-end improvements of a few years ago are now showing up in more moderately priced gear which is a boon to someone like me who has to save up for the really good stuff anyway. Of course, the ideal would be a system that could perfectly reproduce the sound of the live performance (not a very practical goal and a good subject for another thread). I guess my thoughts are causing me to lean toward this: bored?? I'm not bored as long as I have a goal to shoot for.

    :)
     
  24. Clay

    Clay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saratoga, CA
    Hey Joe, IMO it depends on the loudness, volume, sound pressure level you are looking for. I find that very loud costs more than moderate loudness. So IMO you can get a system that kicks at low volume for a LOT less than one that kicks at high volume (~95-105db or so)

    Like Quad speakers sound very good at low volume and do not play loud.
    A SET amp may sound fantastic at 1-5 watts, yet above that it costs a bundle.
     
  25. Togo

    Togo Same as it ever was

    Location:
    London UK
    For me, you can't beat the feeling of listening to a very well recorded/mastered presentation of an album you enjoy musically.

    On the other hand, there is nothing worse than listening to some of your favourite music in a badly recorded/mastered way!

    I have a modern high(ish) end Linn system that for me replays music very well...but it can't make badly recorded CD's sound great however hard it trys.

    Old or new system, if it sounds good to your ears, then that's fine by me!

    Above all, enjoy your system(s) but above all Enjoy The Music!!!!

    :cool:
     
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