Aren't there any integrated with PROPER subwoofer connections? And why not?!?

Some subs have speaker level inputs. Then the subs filter can be used

 

Yeah but the crossover is disabled that way, leaving you with a sub handling everything below....150 hz !!!!

 

Is your friend interested in pre-out/main-in jacks so they can use an outboard crossover or a filter built into the sub? Or do they definitely want bass management done internally by the integrated amp? The former used to be a pretty common setup not too long ago. I see the Yamaha A-S1000 still has pre-out/main-in jacks.

 

Integrateds tend to be two channel, and two channel as a rule tends to be full range. Best answer, buy a AV receiver if you want sub outs.

 

[QUOTE="

It's just maddening to me to see "subwoofer" output with no highpass possibility-to suck in the gullible and ignorant, I guess.[/QUOTE]

I'm in the gullible and ignorant category you describe as I have a yamaha AS-801 with a sub and no high pass filter. I have a pair of bookshelf B&W 601's s3 and a velodyne 12 in sub. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Coincidentally, I bought my first sub-woofer yesterday! I have had a Yamaha S501 for the past two years and it has a sub out connection. My speakers are rather old and mediocre so I decided to buy a Yamaha sub to beef up the bass. The YSTFSW050 was incredibly cheap (about $80) and is mainly designed for home cinema systems. I wasn't expecting too much but, because both pieces of equipment are Yamaha, I was quite pleased with the result.

The fi might not be too hi but it certainly put a bit of life into my system.

Sorry, I can't contribute anything about filters or crossovers. All I know is my S501 is an integrated amplifier with an output for a sub and it's quite a coincidence to come across this thread title one day after my purchase.

I don't know if it is a "proper" output (most likely not) but maybe some experts familiar with the amp might know. It works fine with my new cheapo sub.

 

And an awesome one at that. Stereo, with room correction, variable, and stereo home theater pass through.

 

You wouldn't use your dac with the HK990, it has a nice one built in. Signal stays digital until after processing.

 

I'm in the gullible and ignorant category you describe as I have a yamaha AS-801 with a sub and no high pass filter. I have a pair of bookshelf B&W 601's s3 and a velodyne 12 in sub. Am I doing something wrong?[/QUOTE]
Yes! The audio purity police are on their way, they will be knocking down your door just minutes from now! You will be sent to audio prison, where you will be played only poor-quality digital recordings "warble encoded" to satellite radio specs, and truncated to only 8 bits of fidelity...with no dither!!

Ah, I'm too sensitive about this, I know. If you're happy listening, be happy. But you're not getting the benefits I mentioned. Your Yamaha looks very nice! The manual just says that signals over 90 Hz are attenuated from the subwoofer output, and does not mention any other setting or option. So I think Yamaha are double offenders-first, for not including a highpass, and second for filtering that output when in fact almost every subwoofer out there has a crossover built in. D'oh!

 

He just wants to be able to add a sub in future. So those jacks would work. But as he streams everything, he really needs a unit with a built-in DAC (I don't think he wants an outboard black box...though some are good, small, and not expensive nowadays). Don't some of the Yamaha's have that? I guess I could also add the Yamaha amps to his "hey, check out buying this used!" list.

 

Not if the amp doesn't have pre-out/main-in jacks to take a signal back FROM the subwoofer.

 

Look at the pic. Speaker wires from amp to sub. Then main speakers connected to sub outputs

 

I believe if you connect the preamp line out of the receiver to the sub line in, and then connect the line out of the sub back into the main amp in, you will get the high pass you're wanting.

Don't the RCA's work like the high level connections?

 

That's what I always find sounds best also. Otherwise, I do pretty much the same thing but using speaker level leads to the sub and then the sub has the option of allowing the high pass to be used or bypassed.
-Bill

 

My sub (SVS) has a built-in 80 Hz high pass filter but it's on the line level output not the speaker level. This strikes me as a bad design, because to use this filter means running a pair of RCA cables from the pre-amp out to the sub and then another pair of RCA cables back into the amp. That's 4 RCA cables, but the sub sits 25 feet away from my amp. So, I haven't bothered with this feature. Maybe someday when we rearrange the furniture!

 

NAD M3

nadm3d NAD Masters Series M3 demo - Integrated Amplifiers »

• Biamp mode with selectable 40, 60, 80, 100 Hz crossover frequency on Pre Out 1

...even has a mono switch.

 

Be still my heart!

 

Around here it's hard to tell if you're sarcastic or sincere but since I see NAD in your profile I will assume sincere.

I've been very happy with mine for several years now. About two years ago I hooked up a SVS SB-2000 sub that sounds great.

 

Yes, definitely a NAD fan here.

 

Dynaudios have really fantastic bass handling and detail, I would probably NOT high-pass the sound to them via a subwoofer anyway, so I would just use pre-outs or parallel off the speaker levels, and add in the sub to the lowest registers and blend it in with the speakers driven full-range, IMO. (Dynaudio speaker user).

I have an SVS subwoofer, and frankly, unless I'm listening to something particularly bass-heavy and loud, I tend to listen to the speakers only and the sub off.

 

With the smallest of Dynaudios (Emit M10 in my case) I do find my SVS sub much more capable, clear and articulate in the 40-60hz range. Obviously this is heavily dependent on room size, treatments, components and most of all taste. I get a lot of muddy bass running them full range when it comes to crappy, modern masterings, especially bass-heavy hip-hop....not the most common use case around here I know, but I'm not gonna give that stuff up any time soon so I appreciate being able to flip that switch. Being able to actually hear the quick repeats of an 808 kick instead of getting swamped by mid-bass is a beautiful thing.

 

What sent me down this path was replacing a pair of speakers (Axiom M22) with a very sharp rolloff starting at 60hz. They were so easy to mate full range with a sub crossed at 60ish, but way wayy too bright. The dimunitive Dynaudios on the other hand had no shortage of bass energy and a vastly improved top end. For small combo jazz type stuff, no problem, frankly amazing for their size. When it came to heavier things, I tried the port plugs but felt they sucked the life out of the speaker. A 60hz crossover was the compromise—huge improvement over the port plug approach, that's for sure. Now with a decent amount of power the mains come to life, snare hits etc have the weight they ought to, and I can dial in obscene amounts of bass when desired. And nothing but a few minor adjustments stopping me from going full range if I want. I guess what I'm saying is I agree with the OP, wish there were more options for this kind of setup!

 

Yes! The audio purity police are on their way, they will be knocking down your door just minutes from now! You will be sent to audio prison, where you will be played only poor-quality digital recordings "warble encoded" to satellite radio specs, and truncated to only 8 bits of fidelity...with no dither!!

Ah, I'm too sensitive about this, I know. If you're happy listening, be happy. But you're not getting the benefits I mentioned. Your Yamaha looks very nice! The manual just says that signals over 90 Hz are attenuated from the subwoofer output, and does not mention any other setting or option. So I think Yamaha are double offenders-first, for not including a highpass, and second for filtering that output when in fact almost every subwoofer out there has a crossover built in. D'oh![/QUOTE]

Oh man I'm a two time offender! I'm petitioning for mercy!

"Your Yamaha LOOKS very nice!" That could be a clever backhanded audio compliment. Looks nice, sounds like crap.

So if I want to integrate a sub in an optimal fashion I need an amp with a built in sub cross-over? Is the problem that my current amp sending signals 20hz-90hz to both the bookshelf speakers and my sub? Thus muddying my bass?

Obviously, I need a tube amp.

 

Not necessarily. Based on all the archived threads I've read, running a crossover is considered the antithesis of audio purity. Most card carrying members would say you're doing it right, except maybe for having a sub in the first place. Why no floorstanders?

 

My music system is on a desktop and I have limited room in the room I'm in. Sub is over in the corner. My bookshelves are solid down to 55-60HZ, so I just set the cross-over on the sub at 60hz. I felt like it was a nice compliment to the sound since I couldn't get much deep bass out of the B&W's.

I have floor standing B&W's CDM 7se's for my AV system and they do have more bass and more full sound. But they still don't hit that deep bass for movies and bassy music. So I have a sub in that room also. I'm not sure I can ever be happy with the bass coming from a 6.5 inch driver. I like to feel it sometimes.