AT33EV vs. AT-OC9ML/II

The end-result of my previous thread regarding MC cartridges was that I finally got convinced to start hearing cartridges by buying them, not just by canvassing reviews.

So, I've ordered my first one - a Denon 103 Grade 1, upgraded/modded by Zu Audio. Now, I'm already itching to buy another (it's a sickness, I know).

The choicse are above - both AT MC. The 33 EV has elliptical stylus, the OC9 has a micro-line one. Micro-line, something tells me instinctively, should be able to scoop more detail from the groove. The 33EV, however, gets recommended a lot more, and seems to cost a lot more, MSRP-wise.

Regardless of MSRP, I can buy the 33 for about $475 today, and the OC9 for $419. The price difference here is immaterial, so, it really comes down to choice.

Your opinions welcome.

 

In that price range, I have experience with and can highly recommend the Audio Technica AT33PTG/II.

It has a MicroLinear stylus that really seems to get in the grooves and retrieve detail and reduce surface noise.




Maybe beyond the scope of this thread, but Audio Technica also makes a version with a Shibata stylus, which is quite detailed and reduces noise even more. That's the AT33Sa, which is my favorite. I currently use the Sa, which can be found online from European or Asian sellers for about $700 ish. I've never heard anything else in that price range that even comes close in performance quality.

 

I feel uneasy spending that kind of money on a cart that isn't covered by a warranty in the U.S. I can spend up to $200 on a gray-market product, anything more is imprudent, IMO. No established vendor in the US, including AT themselves sells this cart. It's available from Amazon and eBay - hardly appropriate sources for higher-end carts. That's as far as PTG goes. The sA is simply twice the money here in the US - something I'm not ready for at the moment. I just spent $568 on the Zu Denon, planning to pull the trigger on the VN Thorens 160 very soon, which will also entail a new phono, maybe a SUT, and a Yamamoto head-shell. I wish my last name were Rothschild, but it isn't...

 

I appreciate the logic,
High end is often a myth.
Amazon sometimes stumble upon high end !
The AT 33 is the better cartridge in my option
Good luck

 

My first MC cartridge was an AT-OC9ML/ii and it sounds good my only grip was it is a little bright. Now it sits on a 2nd tonearm for my questionable records but I rarely use it any more. I think you will find it hard to get one under $400. When I got mine I think it was $322 at LPgear.

 

I

I heard one nailed to a Naim Aro
And it was a match made in heaven
The brightness was gone!

 

I have the OC9 iii, no brightness at all. Just well balanced. I think they improved with the iii, over the ii, imo. Costs more as well. But to the question, OC9ii or the 33, I'd go 33.

 

OK, point taken. The OC9/III is $499 - not a big difference in price with either the 33 or the OC9/II. It also has a micro-line stylus and solid boron cantilever. If you were to make the same comparison - 33 or III - which would it be now?

 

I have the OC9 mLII on my TD-160/SME M2-9. I don't find it bright at all. Very sensitive to set up and loading. I run mine at 100 ohms and it sounds very balanced top to bottom. I will say this. It sounds better through an SUT as opposed to straight into the phono stage. I have enough gain to run direct but the sound is much more open and alive through the transformer.

 

The output from the transformer goes where? Into an MM input of the phono?

 

I've used all 3 carts. The ATs are very good but they do sound a bit different. I don't like the OC9, finding it a bit compressed. I mcuh prefer the AT33PTG - it has a more dynamic and exciting presentation - but is perhaps a bit brash. The EV has a warmer balance and has more body. Its elliptical point is more prone to inner groove distortion (as is the 103 BTW) than the microline stylus of the PTG and OC9. I am not sure that the microline gives you more detail but it certainly tracks better.

The 103 has a much nicer, natural tone and a flowing quality to the music. It's my favorite but its main drawback is that it does not track the inner tracks as well as the microline ATs.

 

Because I've never actually heard the 33, I'd go with it. It does seem to have a nice following here. I don't think many have heard the OC9iii. Most if not all on this thread appear to be referring to the ii, and I have heard it is a bit dry, i.e. somewhat lacking in bass and very etched or detailed sounding. Simply could need the right pre/sut combo to make it work right, I dunno. I'm using SUT with my OC9iii going into a MM pre.

If you could scrape up a little more fundage, you could try the 33SA. That's the one that is on my radar - either that or the ART9.

 

Honestly, I'm just starting out in the world of MC. So, under $500 mark works for me for now, as far as cart goes. I still need to get a SUT, a better phono, and last, but by no means least - the VN table itself. I'll be coughing up plenty soon, so $1k carts will have to wait for later.

 

Owning both I can say with confidence that the AT33EV is the better of the two cartridges.

 

That is very much going to depend on the Phono Stage or SUT you are using / comparing. SUTs are actually more sensitive to precise matching. A well designed phono stage should not be over sensitive to loading. AT cartridges specify a min 100 ohm and I have found them sounding marginally better with higher value.

 

Yes, the SUT out would go into the mm input of a phono preamp.
My phono stage is a BAT VK-P5 and has either 50db or 55 db gain and selectable input loading. My sut is 1:10 so it gives me 20db gain
I set the P5 at 50db gain and 10k ohm load so the cart sees 100 ohms. I have tried other settings with the OC 9 but this seems to sound best.

 

I have tried higher as well and seem to go back to the 100 ohm setting. With my system, that seems to be the sweet spot.

 

Can't help with the OP's original question.

I run the OC9 MLII at 80 ohms. Tames it a bit but gives up some dynamics. I've tried settings between 60 and 200 ohms and always go back to 80. Wish I could get away with 100 or 120 for the dynamics but I find a hair of taming is more important than the dynamics.

The tracking and detail of this thing are great.

 

I've had both the OC9ML/II and the AT33EV, both loaded at 100 ohms with my iPhono 2.

The 33 looks like a downgrade on paper with an inferior stylus cut and cantilever. And while I feel the OC9MLII is a fantastic value, the 33EV is definitely a step above. It's more refined, and not by a small amount. Highs are smoother, voices more realistic. The 33EV also seems to track slightly better.

 

I found the 33EV eliminated some IGD on an original Tubular Bells that the OC9 II didn't miss. It also tracked the sticky groove on PJ Harvey's 'Is This Desire' 3 times out of 4. No way was the ML tip going to do this. It is certainly more controlled in the treble but also far better bass reproduction. AT themselves recommend the 33EV over 33 PTG II microline for bass reproduction.

 

Be forewarned -- if you're going to use multiple different MC carts, you may not find one SUT that works well with all of them. The carts can have very different output voltages and very different internal impedances, requiring very different load impedances. And the load that the cart "sees" is the load of the phono stage, stepped down or reflected by the SUT. So a 1:10 SUT will step up the signal voltage of the cartridge by 10X; but it will step down the impedance of the phono stage to 470 ohms. That would be a great load for the Denon, which has an internal impedance of 40 ohms; but for the AT33EV, with it's internal impedance of 10 ohms, 100 or 200 ohms would be a better reflected load, so a 1:20 SUT would be ideal -- that would boost the output voltage of the cart to 6 mV (20X 0.3) and, with a 47K ohm phono stage, give you a reflected impedance of around 117 ohms. If you're going to use multiple different MC carts you might be better off with a active phono stage or head amp than a SUT.

 

Thank you. I've already discovered it by communicating with a German vendor on eBay selling SUT's. He advised 1:10 for the Denon, too, and a 1:15 for the AT. However, he also said that it is possible to add external controls to the SUT that will allow change of resistors to suit another cart, for a little extra cost. Is this really possible, at least in theory?

This one: Step Up Transformer SUT 1:10 for MC-Cartridges 0,3 - 0,8 mV High-End | eBay

 

It's definitely doable to load the SUT with resistors to change the reflected impedance. Not always super convenient for an average end user looking to switch carts and loads -- the K&K transformer kits, which use Lundahl transformers, have sockets into which you can pop different load resistors, but I don't know that that's so common (the tranformers in those also have multiple windings and can be set up for different SU ratios, but you need to move soldered in jumpers on their circuit boards for that...always wondered why they didn't make those kits with some kind of easier to move jumpers for that).

 

A note on Denons - Denon's SUTs use 1:10, I think the standard rules of thumb say 1:10, but in general practice 1:40 is the way to go with the 103 series. You'll read about this, and I've definitely found this to be true in first hand experience.

I use the Bob's Devices Cinemag 1131 which offers selectable 1:20/1:40 ratios. That covers pretty much everything until you get to about 0.45 output, which in my smug opinion isn't low output .

 

I'm not sure that is plausible and certainly not at that price. Decent SUTs tend to start at over £500 and usually £1000. A phono preamp with a nominal 100 ohm is going to suit a wide range of cartridges. Better still a transimpedance design (rare) is not sensitive to loading and works better with very low output cartridges. Neither is the design I am currently using which is 470 ohm with large power supplies providing massive headroom.