ATC vs Harbeth?

Super HL5+ -- was really looking forward to them, due to the rave reviews and the price being somewhat sensible, as a potential "new speaker" candidate. I thought those speakers were boxy, or "chesty" sounding, and lacked extension and air in the highs. Also heard, I think, the P3ESR, and thought that these were more balanced and natural sounding overall, and the better speaker than the Super HL5+ excepting in overall volume and bass reach (of course).

That ATC tweeter is something else (and this is coming from someone who owns older Dynaudio Contours with the Esotec D260 tweeter).

 

That would explain a different preference, but to describe ATCs as having a colored non-transparency to the sound does not correlate with the known characteristics of ATC speakers, and certainly does not correlate with my experience of extensively using active 50s, 150s and 300s. That is why I would suspect something wrong in the demo set-up(s).

 

OK let me re-phrase what I meant-
The ATC speakers I heard on a few occasions were the non-active SCM 40 floorstander. They had a bass coloration to the sound where certain notes seemed to peak / resonate. It was not what I would call a warmth to the sound, more like slightly peaky / resonant frequency bass. Above that they were transparent - and here is where the preferences come in- they were too transparent as to be un-natural or overblown. Like studio monitors but I am sure the real studio monitors are even more so.
Comparing to the Harbeth that are still quite transparent, but with a little warmth to the so that they seem more natural sounding. The warmth did not seem like a coloration, in other words.

 

Though I've never heard ATCs, the 40.2s would be tough to beat in my opinion. They were the best speakers I heard in my auditions last year, beating several higher-priced options. Full disclosure, I bought the 40.2s and love them, so take it for what it's worth.

 

i believe you. I think in the dynamic speaker realm, Harbeth and ATC and among the very best, likely top 5 dynamic speaker companies. pity you havent heard the atc scm100 though. i dont think ive ever read a direct comparison between 40.1/40.2 vs scm100. anyhow, waaay out of my price range anyways so the biggest I can go in ATC realm would be scm40

 

ATC and Harbeth are like chalk and cheese. I can't imagine anyone liking both. I think both are rather flawed in terms of domestic listening. Certainly I would agree with the slightly boxy sound of the HL5 together with detached bass. ATC are hard and bright generally and require oodles of power. I also suspect Harbeth are better with quite a few watts. If you have a leaning for a certain sound you would not be comparing these two brands, rather one or the other with something else of closer presentation.

 

well, spent some time with atc scm19v2, spendor 2/3r2, kudos c1 and some dynaudio focus.
I didnt really like any of them apart from the dynaudio (which were really decent, but still not as magical in the mids, but more dynamic) compared to my p3esr. the p3esr were run fullrange, something I dont do in my system as I highpass them nowadays which increase their dynamic range. I guess im really firmly in the harbeth camp at this point.. 40.1 here I come

I need to try some proac's

 

placement and listening position are critical with the Harbeths, especially the Super HL5+ which can get muddy and boomy too close to the wall for both the speakers and the listener.
Give them room to breathe and listen in a nearfield setup and they are magic.

 

my shl5+ are the worst measuring speaker in the bass if wrongly placed in my room. i can have a wooping 20db peak at 50hz! 20db I kid you not

careful placement is mandatory with the shl5+. im able to have a flat response down to 30hz with good speaker placement and they are not at all detached sounding in the bass, very tight actually.

have you heard proac Avanti? I think proac and pmc and about the only brand left exploring, minus martin logan

 

murphy,
never heard either, but i would like to someday.
the latest speaker to really catch my ears though are the Legacy Calibre. Very efficient and clean, clear dynamic near full range sound in an affordable stand mount. awfully impressive sound and I would not hesitate if I ever wanted to sell my harbeths.

 

Anyone here heard the Spendor D7 and the new D9 floor standing speakers?

 

I would highly recommend the Proac Response D2 if you are looking for stand mounts. I have heard quite a few Harbeths and I really like them, but there is something about Proac that keeps you addicted to their sound. I will say though that all of the brands mentioned in the first page are excellent, from my experience. Whip out your credit card and try them at home. Usually a deposit is enough to hold them while you try them. Your room and your equipment and your ears will decide which is best for you. For me it was ATC or Proac, or in the end it was Audio Note. But, you can decide for yourself. Incidentally, my daughter has Epos M12s and they are great for the money, especially on a good used deal. That being said, if I was doing it again, it would be Proac Response D2s, if I had more than 30 watts/channel.

Don

 

I already settled on the SP2/3R2. Unfortunately there's no ProAc dealers near me.

 

Not my experience at all.........I and many (significant) others believe that they give you a completely uncoloured and honest presentation of what you feed them.
Any perceived hardness or brightness will simply be due to the recording/mastering and/or other factors (or combination thereof) such as room, partnering equipment, cabling, speaker placement.......etc.
Especially concerning more recent models which sport the even better performing in house tweeter design (vs my SEAS tweets anyway)

Most speakers should benefit from more power as it aids bass driver control...........don't know if that means "oodles" though...........LOL

Of course the active ATC models are in a league of their own.................IME and IMHO.

 

Had ATC-SCM 7, for desktop and near field system, couldn't listen for long sessions, due the harshness, and brought Amphion Argon-1 and it is more listenable.

 

yeah, the old atc tweeter used wasnt good
the new scm7 v3 isnt harsh at all
ive also auditioned the new atc scm 19v2, nohing harsh about it

 

Heard the Argon 1 and 3s demoed recently - really impressive speakers. Amphion are definitely on the radar now.

 

Murphy,
Really try to demo the Legacy Calibre if you can. They were the best sounding speakers I listened to at AXPONA this year. Near full range sound in a small form factor and dynamic / sensitive for tube and lower powered solid state. The tweeter is as smooth yet transparent as I have ever heard.
Are these dealers near you?

Audio Excellence
70 Esna Park Drive, Unit 7
Markham, Ontario
Canada L3R 6E7
(905) 881-7109
[email protected]
http://www.audioexcellence.ca

Alternative Audio
6 Hatt Street
Dundas, Ontario
Canada L9H 2E8
(905) 627-0899
[email protected]

 

i lived with a pair of amphion one18 for 2 years (based on the argon 3 but for studio) and sold them only a year ago. ive audition and owned lots of other speaker since then but the amphion were special.
in many ways, they are some of the best speakers ive ever had. think ls50 imaging actually i find the one18 image better then the kef. dynaudio like dynamics, very transparent woth sealed like bass response. they are stunning speakers and i think they are every bit as good as harbeth and atc. i sold them but still miss them. highly recommended stuff

 

yes these are on my radar ... im in quebec not ontario thanks for the links though ill try to find a local dealer!

 

I

Had the the new scm7 v3 , sold it with good price within a year, maybe to my ears its harsh , the thing is I took my integrate at dealer place and did audition and still I failed to realize it would not suit for me.

 

very interesting as its really not my experience. ive compared in my room my three mini monitors: kef ls50, p3esr and scm7v3. i havent noticed any particular harshness. what part of the spectrum did you find harsh? im really not trying to disagree with you, im simply genuinely interested...

what was the integrated that you used?

 

Interesting. What stood out about the 3s at the time was indeed a transparent sound with fantastic scale and quality of the bass response, especially for the size. Seemed compelling and lively but not in a fatiguing way.

Did sense they might need some volume to come alive though: did you find that with the one18 at all?

 

.

high frequency, was not smooth and can get into listener fatigue in couple of hours, the amp was Spec RSA717ex and audion note oto

 

they sound good at low volume but liked to be crancked a little. bery smooth and natural sound from amphion