Attention Barry Diament and other speaker isolation gurus!

I need your help...

So...my question here begins with this...my speakers are these ones...

http://www.bgcorp.com/productDetail.php?id=3

and I have to ask...they come with spikes...they are tall...at 40"..and they have removable spikes...My question is this...I have done a bang-up job at dime-store isolation by putting them on concrete slabs and then putting Superballs underneath them...(the balls are held straight by 1" chair protectors...the balls fit into them...they go on the ground...the concrete block goes on top of that..then the spiked speakers go on top of this....)

So...what am I doing wrong (or right!) and what can be done to improve the situation without making it an easy topple situation...

Thank you!
___________

 

you could cut the superballs in half.

 

Hi Paul,

I guess the first thing I'd want to point out is that concrete and superballs do not make an isolator, at least not a very effective one.

Superballs have a relatively high resonance frequency and I would expect that using them provides a bit of a bump in the mid/upper bass. Did you notice the increase in bass when you put those under your speakers?

Effective isolation of the sort I'm describing requires a very low resonant frequency, which would come from a very "loose" spring. Superballs are stiff, not loose. This leads to the relatively high resonance and lack of effectiveness as isolators.

Anything you put under a component or speaker (or on top of a component or speaker) will change its sound. Some folks hear the change as an improvement. But this type of change, such as when using spikes or superballs, is quite random. Proper isolation, such as a mechanical low pass filter (like rollers or an air bearing), will lead to consistent, repeatable improvements -not merely changes- in all areas of performance.

I'd also remove the concrete slabs. Some folks believe mass = isolation but in fact, mass just provides a place to store energy. If you need a platform, 1" plywood will outperform concrete by a wide margin.

I'd suggest trying a trio of well designed roller bearings under each speaker. Use a 1/2" marble tile, smooth side down, atop the roller bearing balls.

Place the rollers in the largest equilateral triangle that will fit under the tile.
Place the tile (again, smooth side down) atop the roller bearing balls.
Place the speaker atop the tile.
(If you don't like seeing the edges of the tile, use 1" ply on top of the tile to hide it. Then place your speakers atop the plywood.)

The only warning is, once they're truly isolated, like any component, the speakers will "jiggle" when bumped. If bumped hard enough, they can be pushed off the rollers and *could* topple.
Unless small children, pets or heavy handed guests are near your speakers, there should be no problem.

If you try rollers under your speakers, please share what you hear with the rest of us.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

FIM sells a nice isolation roller bearing system that works along the lines of what Barry built for himself. They "float" the speakers and work great.

 

FIM??? Do you have a link?

 

What about in earthquake zones?

 

Hi Tony,

Here's one. (Scroll down the page.)
If using these (or any other roller that comes with a "top"), I suggest omitting the top and just using the bottom "bowl" with the ball in it.

Using the top will tend to add a brightening to the sound that is not contained in the recording.
Try it and hear for yourself.
In my experience, using the tiny contact surface of the ball will result in better performance and no brightening.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I assume Randy means: http://www.fimpression.com/

 

Hi Black Elk,

If the magnitude is not severe enough to toss the gear off the rollers, you can just keep right on listening. ;-}
(If it is severe enough, the gear is probably in trouble anyway.)


Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Barry, I am not sure what you mean by mass does not equal isolation. I use a Brightstar isolation system for my TT (VPI TNT-HR). My system is on the second floor on a typical springy hardwood floor. Without the isolation system which consist of a 100 lb sandbox on a floating air platform the TT would easily be affected by foot steps near it. Any vibration from the floor that makes it throught the air platform is then damped out by the mass of the sandbox. It is much harder to move that 100 lb mass than it is to move the TT by itself.

 

FIM, Wow another audio company I never heard of. I have got to get out of my cave more often.

 

Hi Tony,

It is the air platform that is providing the isolation, not the sandbox.
If you remove the air platform, you'll see how ineffective the sandbox is without it.

You can remove the sandbox and still be effectively isolated but you can't remove the air bearing and still be isolated.

Mass = energy storage, not isolation. This is particularly true when we're talking about subsonic groundborn vibrations.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Ok...so let me get this all straight...

By rollers you mean just put them under the marble...you use pine...could I use that instead? (marble is kinda expensive!)

 

Attn. DIY guys-These little knobs look like they could work (although I can't guess what the actual radius of the cup is) provided you can build a holder for them.
http://www.simplyknobsandpulls.com/item/3414-26.html

 

Hi Paul,

Pine? Are you referring to the econo rollers I describe in my article on vibration control?

I used to use those as bases (i.e. "bowls") for the balls in the first "econo" roller bearings I made many years ago when I first started playing with the idea. Once I liked what I heard, I designed bases made of 7075 aluminum and had them professionally machined. (I call them Hip Joints©.)

You must have a hard, smooth surface in contact with the balls of the roller bearings. Wood will dent, preventing the balls from easily rolling against it.
You can purchase 12" x 12" x 1/2" marble tiles at Home Depot for a few dollars each.

To be clear, you don't simply place steel balls on your shelf and top them with a tile. The balls must be resting in curved "bowls". The vibrational energy entering the ball is "used up" by making the ball roll "up the bowl wall" (almost imperceptible movement really). The shape of the bowl recenters the balls, keeping the component or speaker being supported from rolling away.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

deleted

 

Gosh...I read through your post so fast I didn't get a chance to really read it properly!

Ok...so the little rollers have to be in bowls...
Gotcha...now that of course answers the dumb question I asked in the post above (which I deleted!)...

Hmm....

How to construct this...I'll figure it out I suppose!

Thank you so much!

 

Here's what Barry is talking about.

 

Yup. Those look like Hip Joints© to me.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Where did you get those?

 

With Barry's permission several years ago I made them.

 

Ah!
So this isn't going to be as easy for getting a starter situation like going to a hardware store and finding something similar is it...(besides the rollers....)

 

Hi Paul,

There are probably a number of DIY (do it yourself) recipes for roller bearings on the web. Most use drawer pulls available from Home Depot type stores.
If these are embedded into bases (perhaps wooden ones), they can work pretty well, considering the cost.
(See Vinyl-Addict's post, #14 in this thread.)

The ones in the photo Vinyl-Addict posted are Hip Joints©, my own design.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Thanx guys!

And most importantly thank you for your suggestions, advise, and patience! I have a feeling I will be getting Gort Gary to help me with this! (he's very good about this stuff too!)

 

Hi Barry

Greatly respect your thoughts and I'm certainly going to try your roller ball solution, under my CD etc, the thought of my daughter running around, no way under my speakers!

However I’m currently using 'air bags' when I first installed this was a significant improvement. I followed this with marble chopping boards, cost £10, on top. Another improvement, my systems sounding better, widening the sound stage, focused bass etc.

I certainly agree with the issue of first impressions, lots of experience with this one.

I been using the current isolation for approximately 4 months and I’m still convinced.

Your comments, please.


Thanks in expectation.