Audio Desk Ultrasonic Vinyl Cleaner

My first roller pads replacement was after 600 discs, but I will go not over 500 in the future.
I found filter replacement to be more critical.

 

I got my audio desk last week and love
the ease of use and improved sonics.

I do notice some droplets left after cleaning on occasion. Is there something that helps prevents this ?

Thanks

Michael

 

Michael- stand directly over the machine and pull the finished record straight up, rather than grabbing it at an angle. See if that helps. Also, are the rubber wiper lips firmly seated all the way to the right of the machine when you face it?
Others can chime in, I have had very few instances of water droplets (maybe 3 out of 120 so far and use a clean microfibre cloth to spot).
I also only use a gallon rather than 4.5 litres and don't fill the machine to the very top of the float window, but a little below. Thus, I 'top off' more frequently as the liquid evaporates (largely through the drying process, I assume) , but the liquid amount seems just right.

 

Hi,

I do pull straight up but I notice the droplets are there even prior to pulling the record straight up. Its usually not the first record or two I clean but by the fourth or fifth record I start to notice some droplets are there before pulling the lp out after its done.

I am not sure what you mean about the wipers are they firmly seated? the Manual indicates that the far left edge of the wipers should be pointed upwards slightly prior to hitting the clean button. I have tried with and without getting the wipers to point slightly upwards and does not seem to affect the ability to fully dry the record.

I do find many times I need to slightly nudge record counter clockwise to get it to start spinning after hitting the clean button

 

This cleaner sounds like a winner after I read the follow up in the latest Stereophile. I just wish it were more affordable. I currently use the manual Disc Doctor system of cleaning. It's manual and time consuming, but cheap. However, from what the reviews are saying, this cleaner opens up details that were not detected with other cleaners. Interesting. It appeared that the differences were noticeable to all listeners without having to strain to hear it. Wish I could afford the thing.

 

Hopefully there will be cheaper commercial alternatives since there seems to be some acceptance of the approach. There are many DIY alternatives if you are handy.

 

Fremer noted a $1495 ultrasonic record cleaner that cleans 8 discs at once on his website. Here is the website: http://www.ultrasonicrecords.com/

I've asked the owner a few questions and this thing sounds like a winner, because you could do batches of records at a time. The 45 minute dry time would be somewhat problematic, but I'd just do a batch the night before listening and play them the next night. He said that it would fit in the same footprint as a VPI RCM, which is what I have now. The cost is closer to something that I could afford and the reports on how well this technology cleans records are very, very positive. If it cost $1000, I would have ordered one already. I'm still thinking about it.

 

Get one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-...ED-ULTRASONIC-CLEANER-HB821-3q1-/310724787055

99% positive the 10 transducers in this one are more powerful than the autodesk, you have a VPI so all you need are a set of Groovmaster label protectors and you are in. If you get to sets of Label protectors you can fully submerge 2 LP's in the tank

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Groovmaster...376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af46aeb38

This is what I use

 

I'm not up on the science, I gather than some of the industrial grade ultrasonic cleaners could actually be too powerful- maybe that's marketing spin in favor of the commercial products aimed at the audio market. I dunno. if I were going to go DIY (or buy one that someone else had cobbled together), I'd do some due diligence beforehand. (Not implying that the '8 at once' product is harmful, I just don't know). Many of the ultrasonic cleaning baths that are used in the DIY projects are essentially industrial grade products, which is good. I think I mentioned the KL Audio one earlier- that's from a company that makes industrial equipment, but alas, no cheaper than the Audio Desk.
As to drying, maybe it's my imagination, but I'd be bothered by 'drip dry.' I suppose you could wipe with clean microfibre cloth and then leave in a drying rack overnight. But, most water has minerals, residue, etc. One approach could be to use pure lab water instead of distilled supermarket water or reverse osmosis water. The Audio Desk uses a fluid that you add to the water which apparently does something to the surface tension of the water to help the 'scrubbing bubbles' during the ultrasonic process. And, to the extent there's crap in the water, blow drying it isn't necessarily going to make that vanish, so I'm not sure I where I come out on the drying process. I know one of the guys on another forum I participate in was talking about a different approach to drying- I'll try to find it and do a postscript if there is anything to add.There are several DIY threads on the intraweb that discuss various approaches to ultrasonic record cleaning and make for fascinating reading.

 

I defy anyone to show me a record that has been harmed by using an industrial grade ultrasonic tank (other than using too much heat and warping it). I have probably cleaned over 1500 records in my ultrasonic tanks, and afterwards I record them and then listen to them on headphones to clean them up, I can tell you not one has ever suffered from the ultrasonic tank.

 

Count me as another convert to the ADS cleaner. Just received mine and cleaned a few records. Couldn't be any easier to clean records, unless you have a manservant to do all your chores. The best thing, though, is the result. Just finished listening to Cal Tjader's Concert By The Sea on the notoriously bad Fantasy red vinyl. I had cleaned it on my VPI RCM once before, but after another cleaning on the ADS, the music just became clearer and more present. For the first time I was able to hear Willie Bobo's brush on the drums. Previously it had been lost in the swooshing background noise of what turned out to be dirty grooves. The ADS doesn't do anything for grooves that have been damaged, but it does seem to get the most out of the vinyl possible.

 

I have been looking at this unit. As mentioned upthread, are folks successfully using fluid (ultra-pure water) without an alcohol? I do not have access to Isopropyl in this country.
thanks

 

I think a small amount of Kodak PhotoFlo and 4oz. of alcohol for the $1500 version was the prescription I was quoted.

 

My thanks to MikeyH and the folks on the vinyl cleaning thread. I posted this bit on that thread already earlier today so I am moving it over here where it belongs. Reading up on respondents to this thread and their impressions on the Audio Desk Systeme machine I see that I am only confirming what many before me have experienced.



Regarding the Audio Desk Systems Ultrasonic RCM: it arrived last week and I set it up and have cleaned a bunch of records with it. The first thing I have to say about it is that it takes 99% of the work out of cleaning vinyl and that alone is fantastic in my view. Never again will I let an LP go without cleaning because I just don't want to deal with it. In terms of what it accomplishes in terms of sound, I did a bunch of before and after tests and results varied from "not much difference" to "wow". I suspect that the usual suspects of recording quality and degree of clean before the ultrasonic cleaning had a lot to do with it. And then there's the issue of resolution. My system is a fairly resolving system but there's always room for improvement. I recently installed JPS Aluminata ICs throughout (not speaker cable, which remains JPS Superconductor 3) but my Rega P5 has hardwired Rega cable feeding to the preamp and my general sense is that my digital playback is better these days than my analogue--this after years of feeling that they were fairly equal. The difference in cable is the only explanation I have. Anyway, that aside, readers should also take into account the fact that the P5 is outfitted with a Benz-Micro Glider. This setup is clearly somewhere down the way from somebody like Michael Fremer with his analogue setup.

The largest impact I got from a single cleaning was on a Kicking Mule recording by Dave Evans--Sad Pig Dance. It's a promo copy I once pulled out of a dollar bin and it suffers in spots from 70s "vinyl-itis" (I.e., poor quality vinyl) but despite that handicap the ADS RCM transformed the record…Now, I'd cleaned that record many times with DIII and a hand brush, and once I got one, a VPI 16.5. Additionally I'd treated the record twice with LAST preservative but before the ultrasonic cleaning the record sounded pretty dead. Afterwards however was a different ballgame. Suddenly that LP had life--like a good microphone was stuck in the sound hole of Evans' guitar--and seemingly every nuance of string and wood could be heard. Truly impressive.

Generally I thought there was greater information coming from approx. 1-2K on down. Sometimes it was a bit disconcerting and I was playing with my EQ presets in my MEN220 (the "voicings") but this is something I do fairly often. I've also been awaiting delivery of some Stillpoints (covered in another thread) and if anything I get the sense that the positive benefits of ultrasonic cleaning will become more pronounced once vibration mitigation, or some degree of it, is in place.

I'll do some more before and afters and report some more later on. The cost of the device is substantial enough to warrant care in reporting my experiences to the forum.

 

All I can say after 30 cleanings is that this machine is the real deal. I have a large number of old records with which I'd been waaaay too liberal in my use of DIII over the years. My VPI 16.5 was not getting them nearly as clean and those LPs remained a source of irritation (mostly about myself). But I've cleaned several of them in the last few days and the vinyl is more or less spotless--just very quiet now. (Note to future users to run the clean cycle at least 3-5 minutes. I find that the one minute cycle doesn't do nearly as complete a job.)

I just wish the company would devise a cover for it to inhibit the evaporation of the cleaning fluid. Water levels dropped to refill level (the device won't start until you top off) after about 20-some cleanings. Some of the loss is surely due to the drying fans, but the brushes remain saturated after cleaning and they are exposed to the air.

Either way, highly recommended machine. It is safe to say my vinyl never sounded this good.

 

There is a hard plexi-type cover offered by a third party (my recollection is that it is the same company that makes dust covers for turntables- the Cable Company sells this cover, i think- priced at 99 bucks). Hell, you could probably cut one yourself for less than that if you are handy, my suspicion is, the lid has to 'stand proud' rather than seal the top- perhaps to avoid creating a petrie dish for breeding bacteria. I tend to cycle through fluids/water pretty fast- don't use all the fluid and change out after 70 or so LPs. I'm also pre-cleaning everything on a VPI before it goes into the ultra-sonic- for two reasons- one, using an enzyme cleaner and lab water rinse, then following with the ultra sonic, does a better job on old records (which is chiefly what I buy); second, the records are cleaner before I put them into the ultrasonic machine so less grunge in the bath (even with the filter on the Audio Desk).

 

Can the Ultrasonic cleaners be used to good effect without any alcohol? Or photo flo?

 

I did go to The Cable Company and looked at that cover. I don't get the concept! As you noted, the design "stands proud" in your parlance but that defeats the purpose, or my purpose, in the proposal of a cover. That is, it does not do anything (in my view) by way of mitigating evaporation.

I'm thinking I'll buy a cheap woman's plastic shower cap with an elastic band. Not sure it'll fit around the ADS but it's worth a shot! I just ordered a six-pack of the cleaning fluid for The Cable Company at $100. I don't want to be spending that kind of money any more often than absolutely necessary!

 

I'm not a chemist, but as I mentioned, sealing the unit may foster bacterial growth- ping Robert Stein at the AD distributor and ask him. Didn't your unit come with a gauzy cloth cover to keep out dust? If I'm correct about the 'sealing'/bacteria issue, i think that's the most you could hope to achieve. As to evaporation costs, it isn't the distilled water- which is cheap- but the fluid- which is more costly. I'm using far less than recommended, based on suggestions from a number of veteran owners and my own experience. This has less to do with cost than to get the benefit of the fluid (to reduce water surface tension and enhance the agitation effect) while minimizing the amount of fluid that may be left on the record as it affects sonics. Truth be told, I didn't 'hear' the fluid when I first got the machine and was using the factory specified amount, but reducing the fluid/water ratio will have the added benefit of reducing fluid cost, if that is your concern.

 

The commercial ones (Audio Desk and KL) don't use alcohol (as far as I know)* but the AD uses a surfactant- the proprietary fluid supplied by the manufacturer- to reduce surface tension of the water and enhance the 'scrubbing bubbles' effect of US agitation. (I don't know what is in the formula or whether it contains small amounts of alcohol).*
The KL requires no fluid whatsoever, just distilled water. The various home brew US machines- not sure what people use. The ideal seems to be minimizing the chemicals to reduce sonic signature of fluid left on the record- some folks, I gather, just use lab water, though AD claims (at least I was told this when I first talked to them a while ago) that they only recommend distilled water for use in their unit. I grant you, alcohol would evaporate, but I'm not sure it is necessary to the operation of these machines.

 

I guess it is kind of crazy…spend $4K for a RCM and worry about $100 worth of fluid once a year or so?? Thanks for bringing it back into perspective.

On the other front, I guess I don't see much in the way of mold or bacteria, etc, risk, but your suggestion to contact AD is a good one. Thanks again.

 

T

There are dry countries...strict bans on pork and alcohol. I miss Spam and Bud Light

 

Did you ever contact Audio Desk on the transducer question?

Thanks for the tip btw!

 

What temp to you use in the ultrasonic bath? Also, do you use any type of cleaning sol'n during the ultrasonic stage? I read you use L'ART DU SON, but I am assuming that is used during your final stage VPI cleaning..? Thanks!

 

What is the recommendation of alcohol and or PhotoFlo for? I gather PhotoFlo is just to enhance self-rinse...for lack of better term.