Audio Note M1 RIAA arrives today... let the SUT wars begin!

Looking forward to seeing pictures of the setup there Warren! Wish I could hear it!

 

Really top shelf equipment.

 

I have an Au23 Denon SUT on the way as well. I'll use it with a DV 17D3. 30 years of listening to LOMC cartridges through tube preamps and this will be my first experience with an SUT.

 

Should be fantastic. What have you traditionally been using in place of a SUT, a head-amp?

 

Marantz 7c - just enough gain for a 1mV Benz Glider.
ARC SP10 MKII - I used this pre for 20 years.
Joule Electra LA100 MKIII/OPS2

All three are all tube preamps with sufficient gain for lo output MC's (medium output MC's for the Marantz).

 

So you'll bypass the preamp and go straight into a 47K MM phono stage?

 

AU23 > OPS2 via the MM input > LA100 Linestage > Amp.

Frankly, I have been quite pleased with OPS2 /DV combo, just curious if the SUT will improve it.

 

I'm gonna have to stop reading this forum -- it's giving me all sorts of ideas of how to spend my money, as if I needed any more! So now I am wondering if SUTs are some sort of secret that phono stage designers are keeping quiet. I have a nice Whest into which I run my MC (a Pearwood Celebration II currently) -- but if I hear some folks here, even a good MC phono stage might be improved with an SUT feeding the MM stage, which (scarily) the Whest has. How important is cartridge matching here? By which I mean, my MC stage allows tailoring to output with different gain and loading settings so there are few restrictions on what cartridges I end up using but can an SUT be equally tailored if you change cartridge or does it have require some restrictions on cartridge choice if you decide to move on?

 

From the first page of this thread (ducking!)

 

What I would like to understand is how an SUT (sorry Steve) can change the sound in a gain matched scenario. I've located a 9x SUT that would, on paper, be a perfect match for my cart. Looking forward to Rafe's impressions.

 

I love SUT Wars! But the prequils were a disappointment.

 

Cinemag 3440A-based SUT arrived late yesterday, only got to listen to it for about an hour.
Big tonal improvement was the first thing I noticed, but neither the amp nor the phono stage was properly warmed-up, so I'll have to wait to really hear what it's bringing to the table until tonight. I'll post more as soon as I can.
I'm running the SUT at the 1:30 step-up ratio, (30 dB gain into my 47K, MM, 37 dB phono stage) which is loading my DV20x2L at 52 Ohms (it's a 5-ohm internal impedance).

 

FWIW, when I was playing with loading and my 20xL, I noticed that it sounded rather terrible when set about 50ohms. Looking at the Hagerman loading calculator , it illustrated a bandwidth limit of around 16khz with that value so I upped it to 70ohm which pushed the limit out past 20khz and it came right back to life. You may consider increasing the loading somewhat if the 52ohm number is accurate and see if the sound opens up further.

 

Just a quick note to say that the Cinemag 3440A is a really gorgeous-sounding SUT with the Audio Note MM phono stage.
If I could describe (quickly, and at the moment in my head) the difference between what I had with the Sutherland and this combo I'd say it's like comparing the sound of knocking on plastic with your knuckles and knocking on hardwood; much more solid, organic and pleasing to the ear (and in feeling to the skin I guess).

 

Nice. My Au23 (Denon) should be here tomorrow. I'll be running a Shelter 501 through it. Should be interesting.

 

researched going the step up route for LOMC and found mixed impressions. the downside tended to be less dynamic performance compared to a dual stage LOMC preamp, upside tended to be lower noise floor.
interested to hear more impressions raferx.

 

Like to hear about it! Do tell...

 

The new interconnects are starting to break in, as is the M1 phono stage... big boost to dynamics and smoothness of the upper freqs where grain was still noticeable on some voices/instruments, also bass deepened and the mids are opening up – soundstage throwing farther out beyond the speakers as well.
Here are some pics of the Cinemag 3440A SUT.
It's an incredibly well-built, solid unit. WBT silver soldered, quality wires, based on the Bob's Devices 3440A SUT, minus the ground lift switch (pretty much the Choir Audio SUT design I believe).
From what I can gather so far, in my limited experience with SUTs, this is a very transparent step-up, it's only boosting the LOMC signal – not adding anything of its own – and it's the tubed-MM phono and cables break-in that's the difference I'm hearing.
I've got it placed well away from power supplies, as it is quite sensitive to placement/hum.

 

Just received it today, give me a couple days to play around with it.

 

Well?

 

Haven't listened to it yet.

 

Sorry for the delay. My current setup is a Shelter 501 running directly into my all tube - high gain phono stage (62db). Yesterday I did A/B comparisons swapping the SUT into the chain. I ran the SUT into the MM input of the same phono stage (42db), 47k load. Here's what I found witht the SUT in the chain:
1) Grealty reduced noise floor. I've been running LOMC's into high gain all tube phono preamps for many years. I've become acustom to a certain degree of tube rush. It was odd to hear music come from relative silence.
2) Reduced dynamics.
3) Reduced speed.
4) Reduced bass.
5) Gain - nearly identical.

I used songs from "The Complete Art Pepper at Ronnie Scott's Club" for the test. These songs contain A LOT of energy with a great deal of dynamic contrast. With the SUT in the chain the system lost the degree of snap and momentum thst I am used to. The differences were not subtle. Keep in mind the A23 is designed for a Denon 103 although they do mention Shelter in their marketing literature. I don't know enough about the specs of the A23 (specs not published) or SUT's in general to explain what I was hearing from the SUT.

 

Interesting.
Can't help but wonder what proper loading of the Shelter would sound like into your MM inputs (especially with the lower noise floor)?

Shelter 501 - 12 Ohms impedance (most carts like 10-20x their internal impedance for loading, so between 120~240 Ohms)
Denon 103 - 40 Ohms impedance (so, if this spec'd A23 SUT is for the Denon, it's most likely loading between 400~800 Ohms to optimize the 103)

I know the DV20x2L (5 Ohms internal impedance) sounds far superior and authoritative loaded closer to 10x (roughly 50 Ohms or less) in my system.

 

I believe the 103 may be an exception to the 10x rule as Denon suggests >100 ohms some users seem to prefer 100. I have the Shelter loaded at 150 ohms. I suspect the A23 is loading the cartridge between 100 and 150 ohms. Tonally, I heard no difference between the SUT and the pre on its own.