Audio Note UK M9 balanced Phono two-box preamplifier with RIAA phono section review, post #86

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    What are they? Your profile is empty.
     
  2. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Peter

    Martin Colloms was the measurements guy at Stereophile for years - are you saying that the founder of a speaker company, a man who wrote books on loudspeakers, a guy with an engineering degree and chair of the AES doesn't know how to measure a loudspeaker?

    JA does too but JA's measurements are geared for one and only one type of loudspeaker - free field free standing designs - his standardized tests don't account for in room corner loaded designed and for that matter panel loudspeakers.

    It is entirely possibly that your 96dB speaker in AN's room would achieve 102dB. The variance of 6dB applies to ALL loudspeakers by the way - add 3dB for the corner - stick ANY loudspeaker in the corner and you grant a 3dB gain and the second speaker adds ~3dB on top of that. So take my 85dB KEF loudspeakers put them in the corner and they become close to 91dB.

    There is a Martin Colloms article in HiFi News & RR June 2002 about level 5 AN system with the non HE version of the speakers .

    "I checked out the speaker in the lab and confirmed the high 94dB sensitivity, with 3.6 ohm minimum impedance, a wide 28Hz to 20kHz (+/-3dB) response when adjusted for near wall placement, and a 29Hz tuned port with an in-room -6dB point of 18Hz at reasonable drive levels.."

    I have a set of horn speakers that are 95dB sensitive that seem much more sensitive than the AN's too but that is because of the way horns project into the room and the fact that the speaker sits mostly at 10 ohms.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    It's funny, the people who join here just to rag on Audio Note UK usually spell it "audionote." Why is that? All the same guy?
     
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  4. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I also wonder why we don't see the same sort of response to all of the other very highly priced components? Is it because Audio Note is tubed? How about Shindo or Kondo or McIntosh or Audio Research or Lamm or VTL or Air Tight or Jadis or....

    This is going to sound crazy, but..... which one do enjoy listening to the most?
     
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  5. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Don, it perplexes me that Audio Note gets singled out on the price of their components when often times (maybe all the time) they actually tell you what parts are in the products and who designed what item and where they took inspiration etc.

    Most other companies don't do that and have gear that is every bit expensive. Dan D'Agostino (of Krell) put out $55,000 monoblock amplifiers that underperform on Stereophile's test bench (they get too hot and would shut down). They measure about as good a $2k power amp from Rotel. (The RB 1090).

    AN makes SET amps and other than watts don't make claims about technical superiority. You buy based on what you hear. So I get the objectivist can say "Ahh SETS - that's all for the faith based" - makes sense but there are other $10k and $20k tube amps from all the brands you listed and many many more. Often most of them are buying off the shelf parts and transformers and not all of them use particularly high quality ones - look inside a $15k+ Wavac 300B and compare it to the middle AN Kit One for $3500. eesh.

    But with the SS amps - the transformer in the momentum is tiny - not made by D'Agstino - off the shelf transformer and not a powerful one. As Morricab (an ex reviewer and engineer) noted that the entire things may have $700 worth of parts and that is mostly the sexy looking casework. I'd at least hope you'd get the far more costly silver wire for your money but I doubt it.

    I get why AN is expensive - smaller company, top grade parts, hand built in a country that pays liveable wages, higher overhead and lower sales volume. I think people can kind of say - okay you pay a premium for this. But the companies selling $50k amps with off the shelf parts from China (or worse made in China) using cheaper grade wiring, caps, resisters, transformers than AN ---- those are the companies to be dumping on IMO. More egregious is that they always sound worse.
     
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  6. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Peter Skinner was 100% wrong with this evaluation and interpretation.

    It is well documented that placing a speaker in a corner adds 6bB to its efficiency.

    Audio Note specifies corner placement for the E speakers to achieve any of their published specifications. If Stereophile chose to measure efficiency in free space, it was only to be consistent with their standard measurement procedures, without concern that the frequency response and amplifier requirements in this orientation is not at all what users will actually experience.
     
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  7. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    This is exactly why every Audio Note UK product is offered in various levels of parts quality.

    I know of no other manufacturer that lets the buyer choose how important this is to HIS personal taste and budget.
     
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  8. kfringe

    kfringe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    It's because you don't read those threads. Anything that costs more than a buck ninety eight gets plenty of venom in turn.
     
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  9. kfringe

    kfringe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    Meh. I emptied my profile a while ago. Things change too much around my place (not always for the better).

    I should probably just say, "vintage boombox," and see where that takes me.
     
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  10. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I have to agree wth you. It gets tiresome when one company is supposedly overcharging for components, yet there are plenty of brands that also charge a lot for their best components. Please stop trying to count what it costs to buy all of the components to build that piece of electronics! Is that what Porsche fans say to Ferrari fans?

    Shop in your budget range and enjoy what you can afford! It seems pretty simple!
     
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  11. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I feel exactly the same Warren. I suspect that Peter is on some anti Audio Note UK bent, as he claims to have owned some very nice gear, but he bought it only because he was supposed to 'believe' in that system and not choose what sounded best to him?

    If you don't like it. No problem. Buy something else. It doesn't have to be a religion for you. I am loving what my system is doing now, but you are free to choose something else.

    Don
     
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  12. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    You are probably right. I tend to close off any threads that become negative that way. Especially when someone starts to explain how much better their 47 year old system is. They have never serviced it, but it is way better than anything you have ever bought at a higher price.... Ok, thanks for the useful contribution to the discussion!

    I would never say that they shouldn't enjoy that vintage gear, just don't tell me that every engineer is a fool these days compared to Sony/Akai/Sony in 1973. I grew up on that stuff and it was great for the money, but it has been improved upon for a very long time.

    My first time with much better was with Classe Audio in 1988. Wow. Big step up!
     
  13. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    One last thing....how does unit sound Steve? Let's stop focussing on how expensive it is and figure out if it is a top notch phono pre-amp!

    Is it better than than the M6? I have been very impressed with my IO Gold cartridge and AN-S8 SUT, so I have to wonder how much this has improved your system....or not!
     
  14. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Perhaps put "general trouble maker" under your profile?
    ; ) ; ) ; )
     
  15. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Just an interesting and related side note.

    Martin Colloms designed two speakers for Musical Fidelity, the MC-1 and MC-2 in the 80s. I believe they are very rare now in the UK and absolutely non-existent in North America. I own a pair of each, and they are just stunning to hear.

    I would like to know what other speakers he has designed, and specific models of Monitor Audio speakers that were designed under his watch..
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  16. peter skinner

    peter skinner New Member

    Location:
    South coast, UK
    I don't really understand this; my comments on Audionote are simply a reflection of my experience owning and using the gear. Surely any sensible enthusiast buys stuff over the years, and forms opinions based on that experience. To label people as 'anti' a product simply for outlining their views is odd.. I'm not 'anti' Audionote, I am 'anti' misleading specs. There are standards for measuring speakers, so that they can be quickly compared. Manufacturers need to stick to those standards, or make it crystal clear that they are using their own 'standard', so that people are clear about what is being offered. Anyone who plays around with speakers will quickly realise that the Es are no-where near 98db, shoved in a corner or not.
    Only remarking on stuff you have used a lot can make it seem you are 'picking' on a specific product. But you can't have experience of everything..
    I'm at a loss why people cheerfully accept claims they must suspect are 'dodgy'. if you like a particular speaker, excellent, but don't justify it on the basis of unsustainable specs.
    For all I know, I might own some more Audionote gear in the future...having a 'cautious' approach to their marketing wouldn't stop me if I liked what a particular product does. I judge as I find; we can be enthusiasts without having to swallow very bit of marketing aimed our way. Too many audio companies assume we are gullible....just look at the nonsense written about cables, I mean, really!
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  17. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Martin Colloms wrote back to me VERY quickly. My Musical Fidelity MC-1 and MC-2 were designed and produced many years after he was no longer involved with Monitor Audio.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  18. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Martin formed the speaker company Monitor Audio
     
  19. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Peter
    Why should a company that designs a corner loaded speaker provide the free field measurements. It is not dodgy to provide real world in room specs. Stereophile is patently in the wrong here.

    And Art DID buy the speakers to use with his flea powered amps....so they are sure sensitive enough for real world use. A Kinross and AN E will easily hit 110db. What the f more do people want.ear damaging level.....checked box.
     
  20. kfringe

    kfringe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    I wouldn't want to take your job, Don.
     
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  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Some silly stuff in this thread. And I haven't even received the AN M9 yet... Just wait until I actually review it.. Yikes.
     
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  22. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    Whaaaaaa?!?!?!

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I've enjoyed this thread VERY much. We' ve been entertaining ourselves while we wait for Steve to bring it back on track.

    Where else have you ever seen us bring up speaker designs of the great Martin Colloms, or efficiency increase from corner speaker placement?
     
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  24. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    How soon until you get the M9 Steve?
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Well, I was told last week it would be two weeks but in Audio Note Land that could mean longer. They have to change some parts, ship it, stops in NYC then on to the West Coast. Who knows?
     

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