Audio progress = conspiracy to get consumer to spend $

I recently made a post in another thread. It leaned off topic for some, for me it was directly related.

Due to the response, I would love to see a discussion about this concept. Notably, with Dolby Atmos coming into the home.

I've heard the pitch from several sides of the "industry". Some, suprised themselves, saying it really works. It truly is the next leap in surround sound "realism".

 

Might be for cinema at home
My friend has just installed it in his undergound lair
I think he has 11 LS.

 

Well, companies exist to make a product and make money from that product. They'll make new products and try to sell you on the virtues of those products. There may, or may not, be "real" improvement. That's for the consumer to decide. Atmos literally provides more surround channels. Is it "better"? Who knows.

I don't see conspiracy there.

 

Would consider DSD downloads to be the perfect example of this.

 

Simple solution.Buy vintage equipment,and don't buy into any of this.

 

Most home theater fanatics are after the branded processing gimmicks. All power amps sound the same. DACs are just mirochips. Pre-amps? Home-made sub woofers are killer!!! LOL. So no, there is no conspiracy. Consumers get what they think they want.

 

Wrong. Make it easy. Buy the best of today's gear within a given budget. Vintage is a neat hobby, but for those looking the best fidelity, then we are in a golden era.

 

Almost all technical progress is done with the primary goal of "mo' money". Nothing new here. Add to this that most consumers won't replace a working electronic item unless there is some new whizzbang feature that they've been cajoled into thinking they need.

 

I understand the notion that business exist to make profit. Are we forgetting that certain business started from truly novel inventors? Lets hope that those novel dreams and desires have been carried on throughout time. I've recently come to notice Dolby truly have a team of individuals pushing the science forward.

jh901, you seem to be contradicting yourself a little.. at least in regards to the CONCEPTS I'm trying to discuss. Somehow you have written off both the "vintage audiophile" market as well as the "contemporary home theater enthusiast" market? I think both of those "markets" help drive your "golden era". No?

 

Some people think this stuff is all about gimmickry, though I don't see it that way. The technology exists to enable the means to have good processing functionality built in to modern amps, so why not? No need to feel as if you're losing out going down the AV route these days as the performance is as good and probably exceeds quite a few traditional stereo amps. I know Onkyo has added Dolby Atmos to its range of receivers from the relatively lower cost models up to the higher end ones too. I expect others have done the same. Rather like that other great question of the modern age "when is the best time to buy a computer?", it's the same with amps.

Much as I like the idea of the Onkyo TX-NR838, I'd be spending about £1000 to get Dolby Atmos. Happy where I'm at just now, but for anyone coming into the AV amp marketplace, this is just another step forward in the right direction for customers. A good move IMO.

 

It is kind-of a conspiracy, though not a coordinated one. Vaguely as a consquence of Moore's Law, or some related law about manufacturing costs and competition, prices of electronics tend to go down over time. So to keep up revenue, manufacturers must add some kind of features to "add value" and keep prices up. In the case of receivers, I think a LOT of people pay for stuff they don't use, although they still benefit from economy of scale. Most additions, like 5.1, HDMI, TrueHD/MasterAudio, and room correction, have been useful so far (although room correction I bet is often not used, and I suspect a lot of the general public is running their 5.1 receiver in stereo only).

But I wonder how many general consumers buy a 7.1 receiver, or will pony up for Dolby Atmos, who will never connect to such a system. The latter will undoubtedly be spurred along by the unfortunately-certain-to-come "Dolby Atmos Ready" soundbars (you heard it here first! Or am I already too late?) which, although a total bastardization of the concept, will not be discouraged by Dolby since Dolby doesn't really care about fidelity at all but worship licensing revenues.

By now it seems we should be at a receiver with 5.1, HDMI only (and one front panel analog input), TrueHD/MasterAudio, and a $99 or $149 price...but not yet, it seems...

 

These days, the latter drives progress. What Onkyo and Pioneer are delivering is impressive and can only benefit the hobbyist/enthusiast.

 

Brother_Rael, I highly recommend looking into Dolby. I was pleasantly suprised to see that they are behind the scenes of almost all of it. Not that Onkyo and Pioneer don't have the same level of labs and engineers. It was just interesting to hear about Dolby pushing things without needing as much of a "consumer market". Granted that money clearly comes from the commercial cinema profits. Either way, worth checking out!

As I said in the other thread.. you can't lose by queing up some of the hometheatergeeks podcasts on the old iphone/ipod. Maybe start with the ones where he is talking with industry leading speaker designers, or acousticians!

 

Room correction is funny. It ain't going to correct your room. Gimmick número uno there!

 

The next big gimmick is Feel Surround. The porn industry sees great potential in this.

 

Thanks, but if I'm honest, with the Onkyo TX-NR818, I think I'm okay with DSD, Dolby True HD, dts Master Audio, THX, PCM, flac, WAV, a pile of others including a range of DSP modes (typically unused), Audyssey MultiEQ X32 and all the connectivity I've got. There's only so much....!

 

So true. I recently came upon an Old Carver HR-742 AV receiver from the mid 80's. Anybody remember Sonic Holography? ACCD FM detector. As Jimi Hendrix once said, and I quote: 'Gimmicks......yes we do!'. Funny thing is the Sonic Holography circuit does do a good job at expanding the aural soundstage without the use of reverb and the like. Funny how it never caught on in a big way.
On the other hand it's very interesting getting the catalogs from companies like Acoustic Sounds, MusicDirect and the like, and how they're pushing 2 channel Stereo audio gear, and the big fish of the moment.............tube headphone amps.........and 'tube rolling'.
I really think that the multi channel era is gone, they've pushed it as far as they could and now because your average consumer has no idea what HDMI means, it's turning back to 2 channel. 3D tv died pretty quickly, it was fun to watch people putting on silly looking glasses again, I still remember those ads from the 50's and 60's!
Nothing new under the sun indeed.
the beave

 

I have a Blu-Ray, Satellite, internet streaming 5.1 surround system in the TV (family) room, it works well for TV and movies. I don't care for its sound playing music. My wife and kids use this set every day of the year. The other systems are stereo: Vintage, Modern, portable and Shabby. I have no need to embrace new technologies when they first emerge. If a technology catches on and shows real benefit (like Blu-Ray) then I will buy into it.

 

All known conspiracies can be traced back to the Keebler Elves...

 

The genuine audiophile segment is a niche within a niche. I'm not writing off anything specific, really. Generally, I'm writing off both the notion that dolby atmos and the like is a winning formula for great HT sound AND that the alternative is sticking with old stuff.

The path to the best two-channel is well conceived (by hi-end engineers) integrated amp fronted by a two channel DAC and the best speakers in the budget. The next steps, at some point, involve separates. Home theater is interesting in that we are dealing with sensory overload. You can't experience a movie by focusing only on the sound or the video. It isn't necessary to go full throttle hi-end on the sound for HT, but at the same time there is a path for audiophiles which ignores the likes of atmos. Same formula as two channel, except no need to get too extreme with pre-amp or power amp (or speakers). Set 'em up right, clean the power supply, add acoustic treatment, and go easy on the room correction, etc.

Skilled focused listeners will benefit on upgrades up the curve for a lifetime in two-channel. The components just keep getting better. Sound quality improvements just keep coming. With HT, the panel or projector, when pro calibrated, will easily distract the brain such that sonic improvements which are important in focused listening simply can't be fully appreciated in HT.

 

The last paragraph in the previous post is, not to put too fine a point on it, utter nonsense. As is the notion that one needs to be a skilled listener to appreciate audio improvements.

 

I meant for the discussion to assume that all the components are properly selected and calibrated. Assume the room is correct. Expect the best mix engineers to be EXCITED to mix in the new Atmos environment. Then what do we have? IMHO a very worthwhile LEAP into audio capture realism. If you've taken any audio engineering courses then you understand the limitation, or rather, palette has been the summing of multiple channels into a smaller set of outputs. Atmos transcends those boundaries. I'd wager that at the moment, its not even getting its best "creative" results.

What I feel strongly about is... The whole notion of this new platform being a conspiracy actually PREVENTING independent labels and engineers from biting. Honestly, the amount of responses comparing this new mixing medium to post-printed media "enhancement" stereo tricks is sad. Why would we want to close ourselves off to something before we even know what it is?

aside: I actually did hear they spent a lot of time on the up-mixing algorithm in the stereo (chips) (and reports say, it works amazing on certain material, I'm skeptical).. but that isn't what we are discussing here, are we? I'm referring to the potential of using Atmos at the source.

interesting opinions none.the.less!

 

yeah that 4DSound is absolutely amazing. and those mixes, with a little help from consumer interest, should translate to the Pro Tools/Dolby Atmos environment. Which they absolutely could NOT translate to a 5.1 or 7.1 system NO MATTER HOW EXPENSIVE.

 

I always use the Sonic Holography circuit on my Carver C-1. It does a fantastic job of expanding the sound in my room.