I know this is an old post but that's the issue I have had across the board with their line. The only cart so far I have loved listening to is the MM ATX 150. I feel,like I'm not "supposed" to like it because it's a $400 cart. I've tries an AT M/C cart, not as high up as yours, and it was worse as far as the edginess. I didn't bother breaking it beyond 5 hours. Was hurting my ears, so I put the 150 back on and love it. I use a VPI Prime. Seems like that cart should be grossly inadequate on this table but it sounds lovely and neutral. The M/C cart was the EV 33 which is well liked here and why I bought it. You used the perfect word...I just can't get past the edginess. I guess we all like something different. It's a difficult issue as what do you do if you just bought it and know you won't use it.
I wonder if I installed mine wrong or set the pre wrong. I have installed other carts correctly. Everyone thinks I'm nuts when I say the 33 is harsh, but it is what it is on my system. I just put it up for sale here at about half what I paid. I seem to be the only one that didn't care for it, though I didn't give it a chance to break in either. I wonder if my ears are not a candidate for a M/C.
Yes I know......but in my experience I find run in times may be a starting point. My current speaker cables took about a month of constant playing. In fact, I called Peter over at Triode Wire Labs to tell him I was returning his cable. He assured me to continue another week and if they didnt come on song he would refund my money including shipping. And after about 600 hours, they were on point!....I've had interconnects, carts, head phones all take way more time than whats published for products to come into their own. Heck...my tube amp kept changing in sound for about a month of constant playing. What most people don't know, after electronics come into what they are suppose to sound like, they are still getting settled in and after about a year, they are so meek that they seem to not even be there...just wonderful music flowing. When the Denon AH-600 headphone first was released they cost $700....the price dropped to $500 and then down to $300 and even cheaper now being out of production. These are some very nice reference headphones.... After I purchased them they sounded OK but after a bout 50 hours they seemed not to be changing in sound. After reading over at head-fi and other such sites, people where discarding them fast soon after they where released...that's why the price kept falling. No one thought they where worth the high price and certainly not reference quality. I saw one member at head-fi had the D600 as well as the D7000 ($1200) and loved them. After emailing with him, he let me know the run in time is close to 700 hours up to about a 1000 before they come on song. But those who purchased them and sold them soon after, had no clue of the run in times. They thought they where just terrible cans. So I continued to run them in and sure enough they where worthy of the original price. I love them and got them at a bargain price too boot!Now I understand that's an insane number of hours......and most people don't have the time....the time to return may run out......but what one should look for is a change in the sound......if you can detect the slightest change in the sound, then she is still running in. You may have to listen through head phones, but if after say 200 hours and he cant hear the slightest change, then it may not get better. Every one is different and every one knows what he can tolerate. So its really up to the person. I think Avanti 1960 has been around the block a few times when it comes to audio, so I think he will know what to do. The cartridge run in records can help.[/QUOTE] You know, I don't know if this is naive on my part but I can't believe some of the break in times I am reading. Really? You put out thousands and then the mfg tells you that you may not enjoy listening to what you just paid for (I gave up on my cart...not listening to crappy sound for 50 hours first, so I put my old one back in) and wait? And then in some cases the return period is done. Though I have a high end system (Krell pre, Chinook phono pre, VPI Prime) I don't have a lot of free time to listen to it so when I do, it sure isn't to listen to a system that needs break in time. So, the naive part of my ststement is, why can't the mfg break this stuff in for us? As a business owner, my customers would laugh if I told them they have to use my product for 50 hours before it will properly work. I would also be out of business. I see why perhaps it isn't practical to break in a cart (though I definitely would pay extra if the mfg would do that for me and I could trust their break in time quote). I'm surprised we have allowed this to transpire as audiophiles.
For most carts I agree. Although for Lyra they design the carts so when at level playing the magnets, coils are all in proper alignment, set to give the best output possible. I have tried with tail up a few mm and you lose some detail......Lyra know what they are doing so I will not question their designs. Level cart head is the best for me.
I agree that it is POSSIBLE that level will be the best. It appears you are confirming by ear. A few mm is a lot if you are close. You might try less, and also tail down. But if level works for you, that's great! It's amazing to me that Lyra can maintain quality control to that degree.
If you mean how do I achieve SRA/VTA, for many years I have used the Joni Mitchell "Blue" album, and still do. But I started a thread here, "Your Favorite Record for Setting VTA-SRA By Ear". In it you will find a lot of information on how to do it and an even better (easier to use) recording for the purpose. If we want to continue to discuss this, perhaps we should revive that thread or start a new one rather than hijack this one.
the '9 is still the real deal but it tends to be on the polite side of the fence. extremely clean sounding but lacking a little sparkle that may come off as dull when compared to other cartridges. not any more! i just raised the tail of my tonearm by 2mm from the long standing "level" setting. holy cow is the ART9 sensitive to VTA! A silly little 2mm and this thing sounds world class focused and transparent as well as faster and more dynamic. I am stunned by the difference. Incredible, more air, sparkle, detail. Try it if you haven't already!
Yep. Just did it a few days ago with my 20X2L and the difference is gigantic! Really wasn't expecting it but it is.
i used to use a macro setting on my digital camera then look at it on the computer screen. now i set it to tonesrm level and see how it sounds. then i raise or lower by 2mm depending on the sound. raise for more detail, lower for more bass.
The only cart I've had that is less noisy is the Delos. I prefer the Art9 sound to the Delos but find the Art9 to be rather forgiving in the sense of surface noise and imperfections as well as with setup. It gets better with good setup, but it doesn't punish you if you're a micron off.
The ART9 needs some real break in time as others have said. But it is sensitive to setup making sure it is properly, alignment is key as well as is VTA. Tail up slightly is the way to go. It should sound pretty good right away but after 100 hours it really shines.
Slippers when I put my 2M black back on my turntable just for the heck of it I literally could not believe all of the extraneous high end noise masquerading for detail and "air". It wasn't surface noise because the records were quiet- it was as if the cart were trying to manufacture treble and air. The ART9 is probably not as quiet as say a smooth conical stylus but I believe you lose too much with more forgiving stylus profiles. Depending on how you set VTA, it can be squeaky clean and forgiving to slightly too much detail with a slight edge- but never as bad as the 2M black. And I thought the 2M black was quiet until I heard the 9.
i have found it to work with most cartridges- especially ones with more radical shapes like shibata, micro ridge, fine line, etc.
Bro....The way you describe the 2M Black, i'm starting to wonder if its broken? I don't get that with my 2M Black as you say you are getting. The Denon DL-S1 is miles and miles ahead of the 2M black, but still not getting anything that sounds like "extraneous high end noise masquerading for detail and "air". What I have noticed with my other carts including the 2M Black is they are not as refine as the Denon which sounds so natural and real. Instruments sound like they are literally in the room, especially on live music. Bill Evans is up close . My other Carts simply cant capture the performance in that way....not as refine or musical as the level the Denon DL-S1 is on.
The 2M Black is definitely a nice cart, I own it too. But I would agree that the Black can get a little noisy in the high end. Not on all songs, but some songs with a lot of close mic'd cymbals or lots of high frequency information, the Black tend to get overloaded(?) and just mushes everything together, while other carts like the ART9 and even the Denon will be able to resolve the music out of that noise.
Is that what he is trying to say... I would say its not noise masquerading for detail and "air". Its just not able to resolve it as a clear cymbal. I wouldn't describe it as detail and air when its just not resolving enough. Its just a flaw in the design of the cart.
definitely not broken. i like the sound of the 2M black but it sounds artificial by comparison. i definitely got a little carried away descriptively but that's how the comparison made me feel about each cart.
