Audio-Technica AT150MLX review

I'm currently running a 440mla in my AR XA. I think it sounds fantastic.

I'm thinking of picking up a AT150MLX and see how it performs in the XA.

Anyone tried this combination?

John

 

My 440mla sounds great with my Technics s l 1200 m k5 ! A great sounding combo and it is still breaking in , much more life and detail than my old shure 97 , on my system! Running definitive tech speakers and parasound halo amp! Just my .02 FWIW !!

 

I just put a 150MLX needle onto an AT122LP cartridge body. It obviously hasn't broken in yet, but it sounded amazing straightaway. I was going to try loading it at 42K and 170pf, but it did not strike me as excessively bright at 47K/170pf. Is this because of the higher inductance of the 122 cartridge, or did I just luck into a happy capacitance match for my setup? When it breaks in, should it get LESS bright, or is that just all about compliance?

 

It should be a little more bright with the 122 body, but it´s not certain, it will to some extent depend on other factors as well.
It ´s also not certain there is a 'break in'. There has been done some recordings when new and comparings with these recordings after different hrs, there were no detectable difference.

 

I've got both the AT-440 mla and the AT-150mlx - the AT-150 is mounted on a Linn Akito MK2 arm on a Linn Sondek and the AT-440 on a Technics SL 1800 and ADC headshell. I expected quite a large difference in sound quality but actually there is not much to choose between the two on most music and they also track much better than every cartridge I've ever had. However, on difficult passages (i.e. the track Mistaken Identity on the LP of the same name by Kim Carnes) there is a small amount of sibilance with the AT-440 that is not there at all with the AT-150. I could change the cartridges round but that would involve a lot of messing around so I just wonder what other members might deduce (e.g. would the superior arm on the Linn account for the difference?)

 

I would say: absolutely, the arm is a large part in how a cartridge will sound, for several reasons.

 

Sorry, heard a couple 150s locally and they are ear-bleeders, even worse than the 440. 2M Bronze and Black far more balanced and Black more musical. Prefer MCs myself but never have liked the AT sound, going back decades...YMMV of course.

 

Interesting - I had two Ortofon 2M blacks and tried both of them in two different arms (Linn Ittok, Rega RB 300) and I always had the same sibilance problems on certain tracks. With the AT-150 sibilance was never again an issue. I don't find it too bright but most speakers these days seem to be quite bright and so this might be a contributory factor to the "ear-bleeding" you mention. I've got Spendor speakers (S8E and A9) to replace my previous Monitor Audio RS6 which were not particularly pleasant to listen to with bright sounding music.

 

^^^ Could there be a small azimuth difference - half a degree is enough - between the two setups, alanchamberlain? My Dutch pressing of the Mistaken Identity title track plays clean with the 440 to these ears. Is there a particular problem spot I should check?

 

Hi Antares,
First of all the sibilance with these cartridges is almost non existant and I have now put the AT-440 onto my other Linn Akito and there is hardly anything between them. However there is a little smearing with both, for example 1 minute and 45 seconds into the track when she sings "sound of my voice" the word "sound" is very slightly sibilant and also a couple of times with the word "say" but this is actually the first time I've been aware of any sibilance with these cartridges. I thought maybe it was on the master tape but the CD version is completely free of sibilance and also my MFSL vinyl version. The only thing I can deduce is that this very slight problem is due to the pressing itself and not to the cartridges. For your information I could make you a recording (I've got a CD recorder) and then you can judge for yourself.
Regards
Alan

 

Hi Alan - I was thinking along the same lines, since we all have different gear, ears and sensibilities, that the best way to explain what I'm hearing is to upload a sample of the track, which I've just done in the needledrop thread here. Maybe you'll still hear distortion which I don't. I have an entry-level Sansui turntable so I think your Technics should be able to do at least the same or better if all is well. Could still be of course, if you have a UK pressing, that it is harder to track than my Dutch made copy. Hope this can help - good luck.

Post Your Needledrops (Part 7)

 

Some interesting info to ponder, thought I'd post about it.

First, the background: recently I purchased a Marantz TT-15s1 turntable, which comes with a Clearaudio Virtuoso MM cartridge. This is a cart where there's been some confusion about the capacitance loading in online discussions - the Marantz manual and current Clearaudio literature indicates 100 pF, which of course is very low, but it turns out that this is just the value suggested for the capacitance of the phono input alone. You can confirm this by going back a couple of years to earlier Clearaudio literature which says the TOTAL capacitance recommended for this cart is around 220-230. So obviously, Clearaudio assumes (probably quite safely) that by having 100 pF at the phono stage, with the typical phono cables of the typical length, you'll add another 120-150 pF or so of capacitance - and that'll get you where you want to be, right within their total loading guidelines.

The key point being, you do NOT want to try and find phono cables with essentially no capacitance and shoot for a TOTAL capacitance of 100 pF for this cart - you'd be SEVERELY underloading it.

OK, ALL THAT GOT ME THINKING ABOUT MY AT150MLX, which I use as a backup on my 2nd table, a Technics SL-1200mk2. Basically I started thinking, maybe this is also what Audio Technica means by the 150 pF load they list as being optimal for this particular cart. In fact the more I considered it, the more likely it seemed, since it really is quite hard to find phono cables with capacitance low enough to give you a TOTAL of 150 pF, factoring in that most phono inputs are at least 100 pF. The AT150MLX isn't some very high end, esoteric cart - it's moderately priced, and a workhorse favorite, giving great sound for relatively little cost. I starting thinking, AT have to figure most people who use it will have something like a Technics or other common 'table with typical capacitance phono cables, which again give you typically 100-150 pF of capacitance - not highly expensive/esoteric mega-low capacitance custom leads. That just wouldn't make sense.

Plus, even more importantly - in doing my own listening comparisons, I was finding that the sound of the cart with my phono input load set at 150 pF is much fuller and more natural and pleasing to me than setting it down to 50 pF (which I can do on my preamp) - the latter gives me about 150-170 pF total but it sounds thin and washed out and tipped up on top to me. The 150 pF setting (giving me 250-270 pF total) sounds much better.

SO WITH ALL THAT IN MIND - I decided to go straight to the source and ask Audio Technica, is the 150 pF for the phono input alone, or TOTAL capacitance load including phono leads. I e-mailed their technical department and asked is the 150 pF for just the phono input, or total value including phono leads, and here's their answer from today (drum roll please):

Anthony,

For the phono stage input alone.

SCOTT SHAW
Audio Solutions Specialist
P 330.686.2600 ext. 2525
F 330.686.6298
Audio-Technica U.S., Inc.
1221 Commerce Drive, Stow, Ohio 44224

Folks, I have read about the AT150MLX here and on a ton of other online forum discussions and in EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE except ONE, people automatically assume the 150 pF is TOTAL capacitance. Yet, here, AT says it's not -rather, they say 150 pF is the value you should set on your phono input.

The ONLY other place I saw this mentioned was in a discussion in another forum where a guy said he was told by a salesperson at Needledoctor (the online retailer) had told someone that the 150 pF was for the phono input, following which 20 people dog-piled on ridiculing the poor Needledoctor salesperson's comment saying it "couldn't possibly" be right. Well, looks like it WAS, unless we think Audio Technica's technical guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have to think this may well be why so many people buy the AT150MLX but then end up not liking it, claiming it's thin/bright. Yeah, it's thin and bright because apparently just about everyone in the world (me included up until this point BTW) is severely UNDER-loading the cart, running it a good 100-150 pF below the ideal total capacitance.

Let the games begin...

 

To put it in simple terms, there's an undesirable "hump" in the frequency response of most MM cartridges, towards the top of the frequency range (the right-hand end of the spectrum). This includes the AT150MLX. If you want to avoid the top-end brightness this produces, you need to push that hump it as far to the right as possible so that it's beyond the audible range. Reducing capacitance tends to push the hump to the right so if you have a troublesome hump, it makes sense to lower capacitance as much as you can.

If you increase capacitance, in theory you are getting the worst possible outcome because you are actually pushing that hump further and further to the left, into the audible range, so that it becomes more and more obvious and more and more painful to listen to. In practice, I found in tests that the AT150MLX wasn't really all that responsive to changes in capacitance - it was far more responsive to changes in resistance with lower resistance tending to squash the hump flat. It's a juggling act and you need software as well as good ears to get it right.

Having said that I still think you will get a noticeably better performance from the AT150MLX by reducing capacitance and you certainly shouldn't be looking to increase it - unless, of course, you like your music served up bright!

 

I just found these charts I did ages ago. Here's the AT150MLX with "standard" loading - 47K and 220pF at the phono stage (plus plenty more pF in the interconnects):



And here it is with same 47K resistance but capacitance down to 20pF at the phono stage (plus plenty more pF in the interconnects):



See? The latter's definitely better, but not by leaps and bounds. What you really need to do with this cart is get the resistance down AS WELL. For example, here's 20pF again but now with resistance of just 22K:



Not bad, that - the top-end roll-off is probably beyond most people's audible range.

(These were all pink noise tests, with results shown in conventional log scale. Software: Adjust+)

 

I think "better" depends on one's point of view. First thing is, curves are curves, and pink noise is pink noise - they aren't how music sounds. I find I like the way the 150 pF phono input setting sounds better. It is most definitely NOT bright - what sounds bright to me is the lower loading, quite the opposite of what you posit. I think it may be because as your top pink noise curve shows, the treble rises farther out to the right with the lower loadings...so yes, a top-end tip up. I have bat hearing and so I am most definitely able to appreciate treble boosts at 14-15K.

I am able to do loading adjustments on the fly from a remote control with my phono stage - varying the input load from 50 pF all the way up to 500 pF - so it's very easy for me to hear when things get more or less bright, listening to actual music, not relying on curves. The 150 pF setting at the phono stage is simply not bright SOUNDING.

Second thing is, your "bad" curve with highest loading sounds like it must have been done at higher loading than what I have on my rig currently (e.g. your comment about "plenty more at the interconnects"). For me my phono interconnects only give about 100 pF (based on manufacturer rating and my own measurements), so adding that to the 150 pF at the phono stage I get 250 pF. What you say implies you're up way higher than that and it would not surprise me at all that at such high loading you'd get a big peak around 10K and rapid rolloff beyond that.

Third thing is the supposedly somewhat "better" curve (in the middle) doesn't look much better at all to me, and is arguably worse because as I mentioned above, now you still have a peak around 10 K but you're also having a treble rise further out within the audible range (for me anyway).

Fourth thing is I don't have adjustable resistance and I am not particularly interested in messing with that (via making plugs etc) as I don't hear a need to - though I'm aware that it can sometimes further flatten out a cartridge's frequency response.

Certainly if you enjoy the sound of the lower loading, far be it from me to argue - I just find it odd and kind of amusing that there are dozens and dozens of people posting on the internet about how this cartridge's recommended total loading is 150 pF, with great certainty and force, when the manufacturer says that is not the case (and it would make little sense for it to be, IMHO - why market a cart that most people are going to use with rigs that can in no way achieve such a low total loading)?

 

DrJ and back2vinyl: great information! Thanks for posting the graphs and sharing your reasoning and conjecture. Food for thought and grounds for further investigation and experimentation. I suspected that those complaining about the cartridge's brightness may have had a problem with the loading, and this lends credence to my suspicions.

 

DrJ, the interconnects I was using are much the same as yours, around 100pF. You need to add in another 25pF for the arm wiring, too.

When I used the word "better", I wasn't talking about what I heard or preferred. The ideal in audio is transparency, which means (among other things) a flat frequency response. In this context, I was using "better" as shorthand for "closer to a flat frequency response".

I hope that clarifies. If you want a flat frequency response from an AT150MLX, there's no doubt at all that a lower capacitance will help and a lower resistance will help even more. But many people don't want a flat frequency response - or think they do, but don't like it when they get it.

 

I currently have a Pro-Ject 9.2 Evolution TT, AT 150MLX Cart, connected to a Pure Sound P10 Preamp.

Would using a DB Systems DBP-6 MC Phono Resistor Loading Kit lessen the brightness any?

 

That kit is intended for use with MC (Moving Coil) cartridges. The provided Ohm values are much too low for MM (Moving Magnet) cartridges like your Audio Technica. It does appear to include two "blank" plugs, where you could solder in the proper resistors for your purpose.

In googling for the all-important input capacitance value of the P10 (which I didn't find), I did see mention of it being a bit particular about the (pre-)amp it is connected to as well (needs to see a high input impedance of ~50 kOhms not to sound overly lean).

 

Thank you for this demonstration!, I've noticed you are using a 45 and this is a MicroLine Stylus, be careful! - I know it will do damage to "Styrene" 45s but apparently Vinyl 45s are okay.

 

How common are styrene 45s anyway? Were they made before a certain date? I'd like to figure out if I actually have any, as I've always used elliptical stylii.

 

6 months later and this cart has really broken in nicely.

 

I believe they stopped early 90's (Thank God) - but if you have anything on Columbia or epic from 7o's or 80's compare it to other singles. On styrene 45s you will see the lable just glued on record, Vinyl records are pressed into the record. Hope it helps

 

First time poster here - "Hey hey!"
Does anybody have any experience with fitting the AT150MLX onto a Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 Genie?
I know it's a ~$700 MSRP cartridge on a ~$500 MSRP turntable, but the AT150MLX can be had
for as little as ~$300 nowadays. I wanna upgrade from my 2M Blue.

 

Just make sure your counterweight is heavy enough for it.