Audio Technica AT33EV LOMC cartridge?

This is looking like it's going to be my next cartridge, the AT33EV.
Anyone using one or used one previously?
Going to be mated with an RP6 and at this point (with 2 mm tonearm spacer), I believe the Sutherland Ph3D phono stage.
I've read that because it is a LOMC (o.3 mV), that the Sutherland's max gain of 60dB might not be enough?
Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
–R

 

60 dB of gain is pretty much dead perfect for a .3 mV cartridge. Almost as good as it gets.

 

Thanks Blake, I appreciate the response. I figured as much, but you never know, and sometimes the real world 60 dB of gain can differ from specs. I've never had an adjustable phono stage (or an MC cart!), so I'm trying to make sure I get this dialed-in before I drop a couple grand on a cart, the phono stage and interconnects.
Cheers

 

You are lucky and can hear how it sounds at it's best in a group test of this months stereoplay.de
I personally found it to be the worst out of the 12 - the only one that did not sound at least decent + right on point.
But listen yourself..
http://www.audio.de/ratgeber/1/2/9/1/2/0/7/AudioTechnika_AT33MC_48kHz_24Bit.wav

Winner was the new LYRA ETNA at 6 grand - A dream come true like an orchestra sounds, perfect piano, voices in the rom - smooth delivery of harsher notes .
http://www.audio.de/ratgeber/1/2/9/1/2/0/7/Lyra_Etna_48kHz_24Bit.wav

Acceptable was the Ortofon BLACK among the very best MM I heard so far.
http://www.audio.de/ratgeber/1/2/9/1/2/0/7/Ortofon_M2Black_48kHz_24Bit.wav
Personal favorite though was the Sumiko Pearwood Celebration II for 2 grand. Just overall a joy to listen to ..
http://www.audio.de/ratgeber/1/2/9/1/2/0/7/Sumiko_Pearwood_CelebrationII_48kHz_24Bit.wav

If I was in the market for a replacement for my Sumiko EVO III Blue Point Special it would be the Clearaudio PerformerV2 for 300 € or the Grado Sonata € 400
http://www.audio.de/ratgeber/1/2/9/1/2/0/7/Grado_Sonata1_48kHz_24Bit.wav
http://www.audio.de/ratgeber/1/2/9/1/2/0/7/Clearaudio_PerformerV2_48kHz_24Bit.wav

 

Ouch!
I'll definitely give it a listen.
But, IMHO, carts are pretty hard to "listen" to in another system.
I'm basing my decision on the reviews I've read online.
Thanks Baron!

 

I bought one to use on a Technics SL-1210M5G and expected a sound similar to the AT440MLA MM cartridge I had previously used. I was surprised by how balanced the sound was on the AT33EV compared to the AT440MLA's emphasis on the highs and bass. Ultimately, I found it too polite on the Technics and have shelved it for future use on another table.

If you haven't already read it, Tonepub reviewed the AT33EV in Tone Audio Issue 24 Page 14 (and used it on a Rega table as part of the review):

http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_024.pdf

 

They cannot really sound exactly the same in another system and therefore it is possible to fool oneself, naturally. Still comparing files in this way is nearly the best way there is, to be able to do this test in onesown system is not really possible.
Unfortunately the cartridges should not have been known, this is the big flaw in this test, also some cartridges is better suited for the arm than others.

But still it is a test where one reasonably well get the picture of their different character I think.

 

I use a 33EV and it's a great cartridge. The lowest surface noise of any cart I've ever owned. Really good neutral frequency balance -- no huge discontinuities or exaggerations: it's not bright and etched like a lot of MC's I've heard, or warm and bassy either. And that sense of continuity from high to low is one of its great features.

I think in those audio clips above you can hear that it's a warmer, fuller bodied sound than some but not all of the other carts. Is that more accurate or less? I dunno, you'd have to have heard the master tapes; but if the rest of your system tends to sound lean it might be a better match than if the rest of your system tends to sound warm.

I have found it's more sensitive to VTA changes than you might guess from a cart w/ its stylus profile; it can definitely be a lot leaner and brighter sounding with a higher VTA if you care to set it up that way. I don't think that's as natural a sound myself but I have a strong tendency to favor something with smooth top end, and dislike anything that sounds hard and bright. But with the Rega you'll want to have enough spacers to play around to get the VTA where you want it to be to get the frequency balance you want.

With its low impedance and low inductance it's not all that sensitive to resistance and capacitance loading. Channel separation and balance are very good which results in a good soundstage. It's also very revealing of differences between recordings.

60 dB is enough phono stage gain, esp since I presume there's additional line stage gain. Probably more than you actually need.

A lot of good options at the price point, though something like the Ortofon Black, which I think sounds really good in the clip above, retails for $700 plus in the US vs. around $400 for the 33EV, so they're not really in the same price category. But the 33EV is a fine cart. Something like the Grado Sonata -- which I don't think sounds any better than the 33EV in the clips -- is $600 to the AT's $400. So in a way, at the price point, it's very competitive.

 

I do agree that there probably was a mis match going on with the arm and the AT33EV. I always liked the AT09 and the AT95 is the best bang for the buck cart and the one that sells the most, so I was astonished to find I hated it. I do not know how you can actually say the excellent GRADO Sonata my favorite regarding price/performance was not better ?
I do agree though that they should have listed the samples only as numbers, blank so to say and give the carts numbers - names in another link..if you - like me - read the reviews ad the rankings you are a bit biased BUT I also did not like the KISEKI which was tested much better and costs 3 grand in Euro.
Anyway on my system I could really distinguish each system and it's sound. Something I have't had the pleasure of before .Mac Mini -Music HALL DAc 25.3 - Musical Fidelity M3i into KEF LS-50 - may repeat the tests with headphones but i am a Stereo guy not a head-fi guy.
Plus there were a lot of really good sounding carts and the test material was very difficult to handle.
Esp. the very old piano and orchestra sounded poor on lower systems but soo lovely and overwhelmingly full with great carts. It was the PEARWOOOD that actually led me to listen to the full samples first. Before i stopped at under 1 minute at first but listened to the whole samples later on each cart.

 

To me it was a edgier sounding esp on the massed strings, and not necessarily in a good way. Though I haven't done any serious listening to these clips, so it's just first impressions on crappy portable audio. Not that it sounded bad. But it didn't sound appreciably "better," just a little different. It also sounded a little hotter -- I found myself turning down the clip when it got to the massed strings cuz it was a little hot and bright for me. Like I said, I don't like hot and bright, I like cool and relaxed (I wonder if these recordings were normalized for level. If not you probably need to normalize for average or peak level on the playback in some kind of way to make a really apples to apples comparison). That's why we have different carts in the world I guess.

 

You have to listen to it either on good headphones or a decent stereo. I just heard the AT33EV sample on my TV speakers and it sounded okay.Nothing to criticize .
But I need to hear how the stereo Panorama works, each litte detail the reverb and space between notes etc. and the LS 50 give me informations galore like a true monitor in a recording studio and the real High End bravado begins with the Pearwood but the ETNA triples that easily - never heard vinyl sound so good esp not these samples !
The carts under 1 grand are sounding really okay up to very decent but miss that certain involving magic those expensive carts mostly have ..If you take the time to check on your home hifi you might agree ..

 

Well, I just spent a little bit of time listening with decent headphones to the Grado and the AT samples, and my general impression remains the same -- very similar sounding carts, I prefer the AT with it's more relaxed treble presentation, the Sonata seems to have a much more edgy treble character that doesn't seem as natural to me and makes me feel like I want to turn things down when the massed strings are playing forte. I think some people who are really looking for extreme detail like a lot of treble energy because he helps spotlight some of these detail cues relating to attack and reverb. But to me I'm not sure that's always so realistic (it kind of depends on mics and mic positioning which we don't always know), and if it comes at the expense of more natural timbral balance, I'll always favor more natural timbral balance.

Haven't gone through the other clips and I think it's certainly great that the clips have been posted though and it will be quite useful for the OP I'm sure; though I don't know if he's looking at the 33EV if he's in the market for a $1K cart.

 

You should hear these samples esp. the Sumiko, Volpo and the ETNA just to hear the differences, maybe I should check the Grado sonato again, since I mixed up the prices - it is 690 euro not 400, so maybe it was the Nagaoka I liked not the Grado. Later tonight I will do with the headphone output of the Music hall DAC that sounds beautiful btw.
Tastes differ of course - a good selection of carts that I normally never had the chance to hear how they actually sound

 

BTW this is what the reviewers had to say about the Sonata from Grado.
I translate..
Ratings for sound quality = 48 points
measurements 7/10
daily use - 7/10
Value longtime 7/10
Total 69 points
price vs performance = good to very good
Price 600 Euro
suited for medium heavy tonearms

Verdict :
"Like a sweet dessert - Velvet on the strings lots of lung volume on the voices. Trimmed for maximum harmony . Not built to sound hyperdynamic but not with any brakes .
Intelligent, tasty with lots of calories."

AT 33 EV
sound quality 46 points
measurements 8
use 7
value 6
Total 67 points

price/value ratio very good

verdict
" the most affordable MC system in this test. Open, fresh with lots of contours therefor sometimes a bit hard. The Phono Pre should not emphasize this. sweat dripping montage "

----
Pearwood Clebration by Sumiko
Sound quality 55 points
measures 9
use 8
value 8
Total 80 points Price 1.950 €
price/value ratio is very good

verdict "From people with fine spirits for people with fine spirits. One of the most friendly-honest systems in this test. Unhurried .Free with focus on inner musical thrills (excitement), phase and inner harmony."

Finally the winner ETNA 64 points 6000€
verdict " No questions left, no weak spots neither.without a doubt leaves us wthout words. Who really wants to listen at the highest level and shows his peers how superior vinyl can sound here is the olymp. OOur nw reference."

 

In listening to the clips the Etna did sound great, but of course at $7K it's in a whole different market than the cart the OP was asking about. The Sumiko sounded good too. Very open, maybe a little too bright for my tastes and probably because of that over emphasizing surface noise, but at $2.5K again, totally different market. I was really quite impressed with the Clearaudio Concept, at a much lower $1K, still not really an alternate for the OP unless he or she is looking to spend more than twice as much as originally planned.

 

Thanks for that review link Campbell, much obliged!

 

I listened to four of the carts through some Grado SR60 headphones last night and found the Sonata and the 33EV very much to my liking, with both trading off on a few strengths between them (I gave 33EV the win between the two based on price as I found the two so close overall), The 2M Black was also a cart I was looking at closely, but I found the surface noise unacceptable for my tastes. Surface noise is another thing I found both the Sonata and AT33EV very good at minimizing.
The discovery of AT carts came through me originally asking about the Denon 103-R, and have fellow forum members nudge me towards AT carts if I was considering the Denon on my Rega deck.
$1,000 is my extreme top price point for a cartridge, the 33EV can be had for $499 US, and another AT cart I've read great things about, the AT-OC9ML/II can be had for $350... so that's a lot of $$$ left over for more vinyl, better interconnects, etc. Anyone comment on the AT-OC9ML/II?

 

While the differences in the recordings of the carts showed the Etna's prowess, at $7,000, it's just not in my price range. I agree with Baron and Campbell though, this is a great opportunity to hear these carts. I'm really glad Audio.de posted these!

 

Yeah and the clips Missan posted in the other thread suggest the MP-200 is a great bargin at a $330 MM.

 

Personally I don´t rate the Etna as #1 but it is so that different people listen for different things. In a test like this I mainly listen if a pickup has something that might not be as good, I do not listen for what is good mainly.

 

I agree, a very neutral performer at a low price.

 

I don't think the Etna was necessarily the best, but it did sound very detailed, full-bodied and cohesive. For $7,000 it sure as hell should.

 

Anyone comment on the AT-OC9ML/II or III compared to the 33EV?

 

Problem is I haven´t really heard any of them in the same circumstances but in relation to other pickups. Still I would say I liked the ML/II much better, without a doubt. A really exguisite pickup IMHO.

 

Can't offer a comparison, but I recorded a couple of clips of the AT33EV in my home rig this morning. Had to do it very fast so didn't even edit the files, there's dead air at the beginning as I'm running across the room to start the record player, but I'm not set up at home for needledrops. Didn't wash the records either. Also they're not high rez files, just 44.1 sample rate, nor really a state of the art system (modified RB250, Merrill Heirloom, K&K SUT set up for 20 dB gain; Acurus P10 w/ parts upgrades set for 34 dB gain, so total of 54 dB gain going into the DAW.):

Sonny Rollins from the Classics reissue of The Bridge

Muddy Waters from "I'm Ready" '78

Heifetz, Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, (the famous RCA Living Stereo Recording, you can hear the tape hiss and rumble come in above the vinyl noise level)

Back in Black

Sarah Vaughn, My Old Flame from '78 Pablo album, again you can hear the tape hiss is way above the vinyl noise floor

Varese, Ionisation -- from the great Marc Aubort recorded, Robert Ludwig mastered Nonesuch Percussion Music record of the late '70s and one of my all time favorite recordings and my favorite recorded version of this great piece.