Audiophile turntables: Are modern ones better than vintage? Anyone really know?

Hi,

In the next year I'm probably going to bite the bullet on an audiophile turntable.

But I'm conflicted about which way to go: vintage, old/modern (80s) or modern?

I've read reviews that say a modified Garrard 301 made in 1960 sounds as good as or better than most anything produced today at any price.

Ditto for a number of models over the years.

Some swear by Linns. People spend huge $$$$ on German EMTs. People say VPI is the best value.

Sooooo...I'm looking for someone who ACTUALLY has a vintage or older audiophile turntable AND a modern one. If that's you, can you offer some opinions?

When I bite the bullet, I'm thinking of spending perhaps $2,500 - $3,000 on the tt and arm itself, excluding the cart.

Thanks in advance.

Dale

 

You can't make such generalizations. There are both good and bad new and old units. I personally prefer vintage tables because I think the budget units are better made and a better value. Some of the old Thorens tables are excellent and are only a few hundred dollars. I'd take one of those over just about any $1000 modern table. The problem with older tables is reliability and the tonearms sometimes can be an issue. The last modern turntable I owned was a Music Hall MMF-7. My current table, the JA Michell Hydraulic Reference, is superior sonically and will outperform the Music Hall in just about every aspect. The downside is that it's a NIGHTMARE to setup and you must be prepared to mess with it constantly....sort of like owning an old Jaguar or MG or something. In fact, I may just ditch the stock tonearm...who knows. However, most vintage tables do not fall into this category. If you want a cool toy, some eye candy, a conversation piece, and an excellent performer vs money spent...go vintage. If you want something more straightforward, go modern. Just keep in mind that those sleek and expensive looking tables don't always sound/work as good as you'd think....especially considering the price. Some are plain garbage any way you look at it. Good luck....

-adam

 

BAsed on my experience, the newer models tend to have more value overall and turntable design and isolation has advanced over the years. That said an older Linn can really swing.

In your price range dg, I would look at the VPI Scoutmaster and Aries tables.

 

I believe a newly designed turntable can totally smoke an old one. And with your budget, buying a used turntable and arm, and a new cartridge, you can do very well.
it is all about getting the quietest background you can afford, and let the lp do it stuff.

 

It's all about design.

Then again, one could say it's all about the arm....cart.... etc...

 

no reason why a good design regardless of price and age shouldn't be compared to anything else available at any point in time.

 

Wow man, that is circular.

 

LOL!!! isn't it?

 

Most people I know who have vintage turntables also have modern ones; e.g. a big VPI or SME and a Thorens 124 or old Linn for special occasions.

That said, I'm of the opinion that there are things a Sondek does that no other TT does (though other former owners are free to disagree). A Garrard 301 will give a pretty good sound (I use one for those pesky other speed records) but it does generate a bit more low frequency noise than a modern isolated belt drive like the VPI or Linn.

You have time to visit dealers and friends and form an opinion before you buy. Take a record you like and one you don't like.

 

Those VPIs are exactly what I've been thinking of over the past few months. And I've been wondering about design, too. But, there are always compelling arguments for both sides. Really, basic design doesn't seem to have changed--linear tracking came and went, laser tts are exorbitantly priced without having the bugs all worked out yet--most modern tts are belt drive, pivoting tonearm basics. Except for all those simple, yet compounding developments in vibration isolation--better materials for the platter and plinth, drive etc.

I guess I just want the best bang for the buck. I don't care if it's new or not, and I'm not a big fan of "features", you know, the bells and whistles. I want the best sound I can get my hands on for the money.

I guess when I'm ready to actually do it, I'll have to narrow down some choices and take a poll or something...

Dale

 

I'm not terribly clear about this myself, but be sure to consider voltage and/or 50Hz or 60Hz compatibility if you're thinking of importing a deck to Japan. If a TT can be adapted to Japanese voltage [or if you pick up a TT using a DC motor like the Michell], there are huge savings to be had should you import something vs. buying something in a shop here.

 

Teres TT's are great values if you are up to finishing/assembling the TT yourself.

 

Dale, I only have a modern TT (VPI TNT-HR), however, in your price range a strongly suggest you look at modern, here's why. All the statements that where made about design are absolutely true, good design is good design if it was done today or 50 years ago. What has changed is materials and machining methods that where to expensive in the past because they where too exotic or they did not have the amount of computer and robotic control that we have today. Obviously I think VPI is good, but so are Basis and Clearaudio. Check them out. I am sure other folks can suggest some brands I have missed.

 

Hi,

In general, i prefer modern TT's & speakers and vintage amps & pre's. I believe that there has been more advancement in TT's & speakers in the last 40 yrs. than there has been w/ amps & pre's. I strongly prefer modern vs. vintage cdp's.

Take care,
Jeffrey

 

my 2 cents worth
is concider the arm and cartridge as well as the turntable ...and maybe check around for a dealer that u can demo the stuff....i memebr my 1st linn ...the dealer let me take it home and try it 1st ....maybe hard to find a dealer like that now though???

hope that helps and best wishes
j7

 

Absolutely. The advance in TT design and performance has sky-rocketed since the late 80s (Ironically, just as vinyl was supposed to be on its way out).

 

I have had a SOTA Moonbeam, Music Hall MMF-7, Basis 1400, Clearaudio Solution and currently have a VPI Aries 2.

The VPI kills them all. Huge soundstage, excellent imaging, and incredible 'weight' to the music. I have replaced the JMW10 arm though, I didn't like the way it tracked.

 

As an audiophile, hi-fi enthusiast, turntable repairman/junkie, and turntable dealer...I can confidently say that this problem DOES exist and is more common than not. To the contrary....some of the older motors are EXTREMELY stable and much better made than the new ones. Again...I'm not promoting new vs old....both have their advantages...but to say that new units don't have speed problems or bad motors right out of box is simply not true. I've seen otherwise on multiple occasions.

 

Teres would be on my short list, no doubt, if I were buying a new unit.

 

Sky-rocketed? Please allow me to disagree. This is simply not true, IMHO....though the '80s certainly was the golden age for garbage turntables.

 

What'd you replace it with?

Dale

 

I think a case can be made that isolation techniques and materials have improved greatly. Think about plinth design and tonearm progress to name two. Plus there is no question that phono preamps are much better, especially in the lower price categories.

 

All I can say is my 2003 Rega P9 is a huge improvement over my 1986 Sota Saphire Acrylic with Sumiko "The Arm" and they both cost the same.

 

Where do you draw the line between vintage and modern? I have yet to hear a better table than the one I own, Forsell Air Reference with flywheel. But the design is more than a decade old and the table is long out of production. So is it modern or vintage?