Audiophiles don't really want NEUTRAL. Audiophiles don't really like NEUTRAL.

What does his vinyl rig have to do with the rest of his rig?

Me listening to his needledrops is almost effectively the same thing as him hooking his turntable up to my stereo. It's a effectively a high end vinyl rig being played back thru my stereo. Which is consistent with Scotts question "how much time have you spent listening to a high end vinyl rig?"

 

You got that right.

 

Just curious, what resolution are his rips?

Im not debating one way or another in this thread, but just curious

 

In my opinion, it's better because it eliminates some of the artifacts caused by live playback.

 

24/96. He also dithers down to Redbook for those who prefer having it done for them.

 

If I can't hear the difference between an average DAC and the original analog, then what makes you think that I'd be able to hear the difference between a high end DAC and the original analog?

 

I wasn't confusing the two. If you master an album with tubes in the chain, you make it sound the way you want me to hear it. So why would I want to obstruct that by putting yet another layer of high end modern tubes in the chain on my end? (I'm talking about for serious listening.)

 

Do a spectral analysis of a tube amp compared that of a SS amp and you will see even ordered harmonics being added to the output of the amp relative to the input signal. Tube amps are also much noisier than their SS counterparts from required heating of the tubes. This a known fact and not misinformation like you've been crying. You like your colored sound and prefer that to unaltered amplification. Go for it. Just don't diss anyone for not preferring your choice and crying misinformation. Chew on that.

 

So you are saying that "almost" is better than complete. Just as you point out my "age argument again. Ad hominem logical fallacy." I point out you have a logical fallacy. You are done! Poke a knife in him folks, he is soft in the center.

 

I made no logical fallacy.

Oh I see. Your goal is not really to engage in cordial debate with me, but it is to spread disinformation in order to create a lynch mob to go after a minority that expresses views that differ in opinion from the majority.

 

We might as well have the gorts make this thread a sticky, since it's not going anywhere. But first we'll have to change the title to THE VINYL VS. DIGITAL DEBATE, Yet Again.

I may have missed something since I arrived late, but what does this argument have to do with Steve's original post?

 

We get it - both vinyl and tube reproduction add a measurable amount of harmonic distortion to the musical signal. So what? If it's enjoyable, then I'm all for it. Who cares about specs on a page. Why must all things be equal?

Let's move on, already.

 

Let's recap.

acdc7369 writes: "I just said that wow and flutter and rumble is considered a euphonic coloration by some."

Metralla writes: "No one would consider that to be so."

So perhaps you don't "know the opinions of everybody who has ever and will ever exist on this planet" but you do know some uncited and unmentioned individuals who consider "that wow and flutter and rumble is an euphonic coloration". I claim that no one would say that.

But look around the Internet - you might find that some idiot has written exactly that and then you can cite them.

 

[HUGE]Let's move on, already.[/HUGE]

 

[OH NO]Let's recap.[/OH NO]

 

LOL. FTW! This made my day

 

Well, this is my biggest take-away from this thread so far. Scott Wheeler, TonePub and others had convinced me that dipping into the vinyl pool might be a good idea. Since the better vinyl rips are equivalent, then I'll pass on that investment! Money saved....

Why on earth is the hi-end turntable market going so strong if the answer is clearly high quality needle drops? I suppose I should start another thread.

 

+1.

 

Honestly I know you are kidding at least somewhat.

I do think though that a well done rip will sound pretty much identical to the original record. ( Especially Hi-res stuff )

To answer your somewhat ( hopefully ) kidding question, id say that amongst audiophiles, there are widely varying opinions about vinyl, and if needledrops do indeed sound identical or not.

Many are not into anything digital, some for real reasons, some for reasons of opinion.

The whole vinyl thing is a very niche crowd, with firmly held beliefs that are in some ways rooted in emotion, nostalgia, and feelings. Not saying there is nothing to the actual sound quality debates, but that a large bit of appeal to "some" is the process, the feel of playing records etc.

 

I love the sound of vinyl and a good mastered CD as well. The one thing vinyl has for me is the involvement/ritual required to play it. I also find the cover art and liner notes easier to read of vinyl compared to that of a CD.

 

The Shure slopes down 4 decibels between 200 Hz and 6200 Hz, right smack in the midrange. And that's IF it's loaded correctly. It is not neutral. With such a lack of treble, I suppose some would call it sweet, but I'd call it muddy.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/soundsmith_e.html

 

I guess you haven't tried arguing with acdc7369. It's an exercise in frustration.

 

Maybe you meant to have this link?

 

Look, Gordon Holt explained it more than 50 years ago when he was at High Fidelity. You can't tell neutral by listening. Even if you were "there" where was there? Mics are not neutral, every spot in the hall/studio sounds different. Plus, you can't hear speakers without a recording, and you can't hear a recording without speakers. It's a circle. Your only way out is outside the circle.

To get outside the circle, you look at objective measurements. Then you seek gear which measures flat. Then, at least if you believe in science, you know that what you are hearing is what is on the recording. As far as fidelity is concerned, you can't do any better than that. That's all there is. It's slim satisfaction.

Now there are other ways to go about this hobby--Art Dudley and Sam Tellig do the best job laying it out--they want pleasure, including the pleasure of owning cool gear. But now you have nothing to say about fidelity.

 

See above post.