Audition of Audeze LCD 3 and Sennheiser 800.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Diver110, Aug 30, 2015.

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  1. Diver110

    Diver110 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Camas
    As I noted in another thread, I went to the DC Audiofest yesterday. I had hoped to find some dedicated headphone rooms, but no such luck. But one vendor has a turntable that ran through two different makes of headphone amps to the Audeze LCD 3 and Sennheiser 800. So I could compare the two headphones. The source was the same, but the fact that the headphone amps were different makes the comparison somewhat suspect. For the Audeze, the headphone amp was am Elekit, for the Sennheiser, LYR. I only got to listen to a Mozart Piano Concerto for a fairly brief amount of time, again making the comparison suspect. With those caveats, I thought the Sennheisers blew the Audeze away from just about any perspective, not the least of all comfort. The music was more transparent, imaging was better, and the Sennheisers just plain sounded better. Ham Sandwich has pointed out that the Sennheisers tend to shine on classical, so that may have been a factor.
     
  2. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Nothing will come close to your Aeris:agree:, but I agree on the Senns.
     
  3. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The HD800 is awesome. One of the best dynamic headphones, if not the best, at doing the style of sound and soundstage that you heard it do. It's a reference headphone for that.

    Not really fair though to pair the Audeze LCD3 up with a Lyr amp to do battle with the Senn HD800. The Lyr amp isn't a clean or transparent sounding amp. Has very noticeable noise. And has a compact soundstage that tends to form a blob inside your head instead of allowing the soundstage to seem outside your head. The Lyr is more suited for rock music than classical. Rock music can benefit from the extra energy that a compact soundstage can provide. Classical music doesn't benefit from that. The Lyr's claim to fame was being a relatively inexpensive amp that could make the Audeze headphones rock. It isn't an amp that does the finesse and technicalities all that well.

    A better amp, like one of the Cavalli amps, would give the LCD3 a much better showing against the HD800 for classical. The HD800 would still win, but at least it wouldn't be such a route.
     
  4. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    I thought the Audeze was paired with an Elekit amp per the OP. It was the Senn through the Lyr. But yes the Audeze would win on modern compressed pop or hip hop while the Senn would win on any recording remotely natural. It is a bit twitchy though on anything even slightly hot. Nothing can be done for the Audeze discomfort factor.

    Not surprised by the lack of headphone systems at these audiofests. Not enough profit margin.
     
  5. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Reading comprehension fail on my part. I read it has having the LCD3 paired with the Lyr and the HD800 paired with the Elekit. Because of my biases as to what I would have expected. If you have a Lyr, tube amp, HD800, and LCD3 you pair the Lyr and the LCD3 and you pair the tube amp with the HD800. That would be the expected way to do it.

    The HD800 does well with tube amps. The LCD3 does well with amps that have oomph and power like powerful solid state amps or powerful hybrid amps. Pair up the gear to play to the strengths of the headphones. Doesn't really make much sense to do otherwise, especially when demoing at an audio show.
     
  6. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    This!

    My only experience with Audeze was with the LCD-X (?) model versus the HD800 off the same headphone amp. (Meridian). Neither I nor my pal could get a comfortable setting with the Audeze, and both of us thought that the HD800 was much, much better. If I was going to spend that much on headphones, though, I would audition Stax. They are still the best that I have heard!
     
  7. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    The top Stax models are going to be more expensive than the Senn800s and with their demanding amp requirements I would consider the outlay not comparable. What Stax models do you consider sonically and pricewise competitive with the 800s? (I have only heard the 007s and 009s.) Or are you saying that it would be better to just pay the extra price to get the sound?
     
  8. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    This demonstrates how subjective the choice of any component is, particularly headphones. I have listened to the Senns on numerous systems and cannot stand listening to them for more than a few minutes at a time because they sound so thin and bright. I can say the same thing for many high end speakers, though none sound as bright and thin in the midbass, lowere midrange than the Senn phones. I much prefer their lower cost models. I will agree that they are among the most comfortable phones out there (and that counts for A LOT). I don't think that the top Stax models sound anything like the Senn HD800. While they are somewhat lean sounding (particularly compared to the Audeze phones), they are not nearly as lean and they are not as tizzy sounding on top.

    I have mixed feelings about the 007 vs. 009 comparison. I like the warmer midrange of the 007, but, I do like the more extended bass, higher efficiency and better behavior at louder volume of the 009. Overall, if I decide to get the 009, it would be used as an alternative to the 007, not a replacement.
     
  9. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Well the problem is made almost impenetrable because people don't specify amplification and type of musical content. What has surprised me about the better headphones is how amp dependent they are. I would have thought that compared to in-room speakers that headphones would be a snap to optimally drive but they are not. This is why the vanilla model Senns are so popular because they are less amp finicky. I love the Senn 600/650s but they do lack involvement to a certain degree. I guess you are saying that Stax models below the 007 are not competitive with the Senns though. May I ask what amp you use with the 007?

    The material is another divide. If compressed pop music is the main fare, then euphony and darker tonality is a blessing without a cost. There is no benefit to soundstaging or detail retrieval. What many people miss on headphones though is the expansive quality of in-room speakers when listening to more naturally recorded material. So headphones that can provide some of that are going to attract attention. The issue then becomes finding the amp that drives them well.
     
  10. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    I just think that if someone is in the market for a $1.5k - $2k headphone WITHOUT amplification that they owe it to themselves to check the Stax models out. A 007 will cost about as much (009 is more expensive). To my mind, one will have one of three responses:

    1. won't like them and wonder what all the fuss is about;
    2. like them, but not enough to justify the extra cost over some other option;
    3. decide you can't live without them!

    Of course, there is less freedom with a Stax system compared to a conventional headphone/amp combination where you can mix/match/upgrade to your heart's content.

    Obviously, if someone does not have the initial outlay for a Stax system, then that disqualifies them from consideration, as you cannot add a nice amp later when funds allow (as you can with the Sennheisers, etc.).
     
    Mr Bass likes this.
  11. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    The HD800's are the most comfortable headphone, the Audeze the least.

    And I prefer the HD800's sound by a wide, wide margin.
     
  12. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Mr Bass,

    I run a Blue Hawaii SE with my 007s. I have changed out the EL34s that came with the amp with a set of old Telefunkens that a friend gave to me. He came over with 4 different sets of quads of 6CA7 and EL34s and I went with the Telefunkens. With phones, I never really think about soundstaging. I take the sound-in-the-head sensation as a given, and I just accept that that is how it will be; to me, this does not detract from the experience.
     
    Mr Bass likes this.
  13. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Thanks. The Blue Hawaii is obviously an expensive head amp. With respect to soundstaging, I didn't mean that headphones do that the same way that inroom speakers do. But some headphones at least layer and separate instruments better. My problem is that I consider the 009s significantly better than the 007s which raises the total cost beyond my threshold.
     
  14. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Mr Bass,

    I got to hear a three-way shootout between the 007, the 009 and a Sennheiser HE 60 (wired for the same plug as the Stax phones) on the Blue Hawaii at an audio show last year (I brought my 007s for the comparison). This was quite interesting. It would be hard to pick a winner because they each had their strengths. The HE 60 has a magnificently beautiful midrange, but it sounds rolled off on top in comparison to the 007, and is even more rolled-off sounding compared to the hotter sounding 009. If the 009 were a touch less thin sounding in the midrange, it would have been the clear winner, but, as it is, I would be hardpressed to pick between any of these. I wish someone had shown up with a pair of HE 90s, that would certainly make the competition interesting.
     
  15. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    The unfortunate aspect is that I hear no commendation for Stax models below the 007 and your silence I assume means the same lack of interest. At least with the Senns there are recommendable lower and higher priced models. With Stax it starts at the 007 plus a highly expensive amp. Even worse from my standpoint I like the 009s better.
     
  16. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I know a couple of college kids who really like the MUCH cheaper Stax Lambda phones over either the 007 or 009, so there are other stax alternatives. They are both headphone nuts who build their own tube amplifiers.
     
    Mr Bass likes this.
  17. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    I've listened to, and enjoyed, the Lambda and Lambda PRO models in the past (it's been a few years since I last heard them, and I haven't heard them in a head-to-head with the HD800). I'm not sure which models Stax still has in production, and at what cost, but I don't think it is a case that only the 007 and 009 should be considered. Just like the HD600 vs. HD650 debate, I'm sure you'll find fans of each Stax model.
     
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  18. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Thanks for your replies. I will check those Lambdas out since the 009s would only make sense if I was mainly listening to headphones.
     
  19. Diver110

    Diver110 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Camas
    I have heard the complaint that the Sennheiser 800's are bright sounding, but I have also heard that this issue is a function of the amp used. My experience supports the latter argument. I am very touchy about brightness, but did not find the 800's bright in my admittedly short test.
     
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