axis: bold as love - different mixes available on official CD releases

I am the originator of this claim and yes the twofer from the seventies has the different mix.

 

Also - stop using "You Got Me Floating" intros please. The most glaring and obvious is the five seconds or so in "If Six Was Nine" right before the "white collar businessman" line. It is soooooo long as opposed to the second or two break in all other versions. There is also more phasing throughout the record as well. "Little Wing" has super phased vocals. Using the intro to "Floating" could just be a silly edit on the part of the transfer from analog to digital. (see The Move "Shazam" Thread for silly edits from copy tapes)

We need to look deeper and at different cue points.

Thanx guys.

 

I will give a listen to IF 6 WAS 9 as soon as I get a chance and see what I can hear.

 

This is what I found out about IF 6 WAS 9.

The P20P version is 5:34 long
The P33P version is 5:33 long
The 1993 remaster is 5:36 long
The 1997 remaster is 5:33 long

There is no line that states "White collar businessman," but there is a lie that says "white collared conservative" and there is another line that syas "go ahead on Mr. Business man." I listened to every one of these 4 discs and there is no difference on this song, all 4 CDs have the same version of IF 6 WAS 9. Although there are differences in the time of machine readout, the difference was the silence at the end of the song, not in the music itself. So this little test was inconclsive, but I am willing to check out these discs for any other signs of different mixes.

As a note: This little test revealed that there is a remendous amount of difference in the sound quality of these 4 discs. The Experience Hendrix version is by far the worse sounding of the 4, it actually sounds like a smear of cymbols and whooshing of guitars; the 1993 Mankowitz remaster sounds about the same as the P33P, and the P20P sounds very clean and detailed.

 

There is no line that states "White collar businessman," but there is a lie that says "white collared conservative" and there is another line that says "go ahead on Mr. Business man."



I was half-asleep. Please don't scold me for this - you know what line I meant.

 

(NOTE: For the purposes of this discussion, I am labeling the 1968 US Reprise vinyl/1997 MCA CD as the "standard" mix, and the 1989 German Polydor CD [813 572-2] as the "alternate" mix.)

Interesting. This seems to contradict Doug Bell's claim that the P20P corresponds to the '93 Mankowitz, and that the P33P does not. That being the case, perhaps we ought to be skeptical of his assertion that the original UK and US vinyl are equivalent. (Say...I wonder whether there might be two different cuttings of the UK Track vinyl in existence? Is it possible that a new, improved mix, originally created for the US market, might've been quietly "slipstreamed" into the UK production run at some point in the late '60s, then forgotten about by the time that the AYE/Axis twofer was put together? The standard US mix certainly strikes me as being much more polished than the other version.)

Harrumph.

That looong pause is on every version of Axis that I've ever heard--including the mono.

Have a listen to this. In the left channel is the standard mix (from the current MCA CD), and in the right is the alternate (from the German Polydor CD). You'll notice that on the latter version, the gap is actually a split-second shorter!

Now, here's a difference that I find particularly glaring, at about 1:04 into "Little Wing." Here is the standard version, and here is the alternate. Note the bum guitar note that was excised from the standard mix--it jumps right out on the alternate version.

Phew. We'll get this nailed down eventually!

--Paul Curtis

 

So it's back to the drawing board for this little experiement. I will give LITTLE WING a listen latter on in the day.

In case you are wondering, the Japanese Polydors are clearly marked right on the disc with the catalog number, P20P or P33P, so there is no chance that I am mixing them up. Also, neither of my Japanese Polydors came with an OBI, so this thread is the first I have ever heard of a "remixed and remastered" P33P. I bought both of Japanese Polydor AXIS: BOLD AS LOVE about 2 years ago when Hendrix material was real cheap. In fact, on Sept. 12, 2001 (the day after 9-11) I started collecting Hendrix, it was my response to the terrorist attacks. Within about 6 months I bought 122 Hendrix CDs, mostly Polydor and Warner, but I bought a lot of MCA as well. The shopping spree set me back about $3,000, but at the time I was "stockpiling" Hendrix I was doing it as a patriotic act. Well anyway, I have since sold about half of these CDs, poor sound quality or whatever, and I now have about 80 Hendrix CDs. I am still interested in learning about these discs, because I have no knowledge or information about these discs, just a bunch of Hendrix that I bought to give to my kids when I get old.

 

The alternate Little Wing noise is on my version from the two-fer. The pause on the twofer for "If Six Was Nine" is double that of those that you have given as an example. Does anyone else here find that this is also concurrent with their versions?

 

I am so sorry that it took me so long to perform this last test on the various digital versions of AXIS: BOLD AS LOVE, but as I mentioned in one of my previous posts my Mom was in the hospital. Well she didn't make it, she died.

But I did perform that little test today and here is what I found out. Of course the 1997 Experience Hendrix and the 1993 MCA both have what we can call the "standard mix," that is the bum note is removed from the 1:04 marker of LITTLE WING. As for my Japanese Polydors, the P33P has the standard mix (no bum note at 1:04 into LITTLE WING) but the P20P has the alternative mix (the bum note was not removed).


I hope that this little test has helped out some of the interested parties that have been keeping up on this thread.

 

So sorry to hear about your mother, my condoles.

 

Real sorry about your Mom. Take care Rocky.

Regards

 

Thank you guys. She was elderly and thankfully the end came fast. From the time she entered the hospital to the day that she died (June 12th) was only 3 weeks, so she really didn't suffer a long time.

 

A few additions to the differences Mal observed between the 2 mixes ... Mal's observations largely cover placement in the mix. Mine seem to cover tone/vibe more.

I'm comparing using the original Reprise CD of the standard mix (a nice DADC pressing of Reprise 6281-2), and the W.German Polydor of the alternate mix (Polydor 813 572-2).

Up From The Skies: The alternate mix, even though it runs for basically the same overall length, fades much later. This reveals a lot of extra detail in Jimi's final solo.

Spanish Castle Magic: Jimi's vocal in the verses is up in the mix, and is generally warmer in tone.

Wait Until Tomorrow: like Spanish Castle Magic, Jimi's vocals are a bit further up in the mix. Compared to the standard mix, there's also a bit more reverb on them.

Ain't No Telling: the standard mix's vocals are a bit right of center; the alternate mix vocals seem to be placed more to the left. As above, they're also more forward in the mix. The alternate mix feels fuller.

Little Wing: on the alternate mix, it feels like someone rode the drums' reverb return - the impression of space grows to cavernous levels during Mitch's fills. Particularly before the final solo, this makes the alternate mix feel more dramatic... the reverbed drums seem to grow in size until they crescendo into that solo. On the whole, I'd say the alternate mix is more psychedelic.

You Got Me Floatin': alternate mix has a clipped snare drum hit coming out of the solo. The final ~30 seconds of the 2 mixes have a fairly different vibe. The standard mix is a bit more psychedelic, with tape effects and phasing preceding the last chorus/solo. On the alternate mix, while the phasing is present, things are mixed more to the sides...when the band kicks back in, it has real force in both channels. The amount of processing on the standard mix blunts that hit, and leaves the right channel a bit anemic.

Castles Made Of Sand: the standard mix significantly emphasizes the bass guitar....or the alternate mix significantly de-emphasizes it. You choose.

She's So Fine: I don't know a better way to describe this... but when switching back and forth between the 2 mixes, it sounds like the overall frequency response is different; there's holes in the standard mix as if frequencies were scooped out (the alternate mix feels warmer and fuller).

Little Miss Lover: The tone of the bass guitar is quite different between the 2 mixes - the standard mix has the bass guitar heavier and focusing on deeper frequencies; the alternate mix has it throatier and with a bit more growl. Jimi's vocal exhibits similar EQ differences, and the alternate mix's vocal is either more phased (or lets the phasing sound more apparent because of the highlighted frequencies).

Bold As Love: I have to disagree with Mal here. Sort of. The mixes are identical right up until the false ending, and from Mitch's spacy fill onward, the same working mix is used as a base... However, the way the phasing is applied to each ending is quite different, peaking in and out at different places. I think this would also explain the different sound of that edit point in both mixes - they probably ran the ending multiple times, playing with the phasing, and different passes were cut into each. On the alternate mix, the final fade phases and reverbs into oblivion; the standard mix stays crisper longer, and has an extra ~2 seconds of guitar at the end.


Big thanks to Sonnyrock for the hookup on a copy of the alternate mix.

 

thanks for the info Steve. As I mentioned, I agree that the alt mix Little Wing is a revalation when you hear it for the first time, way more psychedelic !

 

I love all this stuff.

 

The Original Polydor Import cd (i'm in the USA) is a 'Remixed' version! It has 'ADD' clearly on the cd. It was freshly remixed from the Multitracks for this issue.
the beave

 

bump

 

Wow this one really got derailed in a bad way...

An ADD remix from the multis? Yikes!

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/hendrix-axis-bold-as-love-alternate-mix.128265/