Bad/dirty "Optimal" pressing - The need to clean new records becomes essential

I purchased the box set from Deutsche Grammaphon of what they call "The Originals". It is a set of 6 analogue recordings pressed onto vinyl with no digital intervention dating back to the 60s and 70s. This set of discs is pressed at Optimal.

I opened one of the records, Grieg's Lyric Pieces and inspected it visually. It looked pristine, no scratches, nothing sinister looking. I started to play it....first few seconds okay, then a loud thump, followed by an even louder thump, following by an even and scarily loud deep thump. I rushed for the record player and lifted the arm.

I inspected the record again, and could still see nothing obvious in those opening grooves. It didn't cause the stylus to skip but the thumps were extremely loud, much louder than loud music.

I then cleaned the record using my two bath Knosti method and now it is fine. This has left me paranoid that there has been damage to my brand new Dynavector XX-2 MK2. A close-up photo of the stylus diamond looks okay and the cantilever is not bent. I have convinced myself the suspension moves slightly more when lowering it onto the record, but that could be my imagination. Of course my imagination has also lead me to believe things don't sound quite as sharp and clear on the attack of notes etc.

Prior to today, I had always had the mentality that I only clean brand new vinyl if it sounds bad from the start. If all is well, don't touch it. This thought process is also because I have found with a couple of new records, that cleaning them sometimes makes the pops and clicks that were already there louder (a point endorsed by someone that sells me the cleaning formulas, a super clean imperfection in a record can make the imperfection even more noticeable). Now this incident has caused me to re-think things and cleaning is now a must, even from the highly reputable "Optimal".

Any ideas what the stylus could have been running into? Bits of vinyl lodged in the grooves seems the most likely. If there is a severe roadblock in the groove made of vinyl, am I likely to have "hidden" damage to the cartridge in the form of suspension stretching/damage?

 

I always clean EVERYTHING before it touches my table. Most new vinyl has lots of schmutz all over it.

Though I'm sure your stylus is fine.

 

You probably had a spec of dirt or paper stuck to the surface of the record. I have encountered this problem occasionally with new discs and more often on played ones returned to the sleeve. It will not damage a diamond stylus or cantilever.

 

I have to agree. I have ran into this a number of times and couldn't understand why. A brand new copy of Shining - E.E.E.E. that I picked up was popping and clicking like crazy. Also had a few thumps to it. it drove me insane. Ended up picking up a spin clean and have been cleaning all the new ones I buy every time now. someday ill buy a vacuum.

 

I have purchased a number of Optimal pressings over the last 3 years - probably about 20 of them - all classical reissues from Mercury Living Presence and DG. I have found the quality of these pressings to be extremely variable. Most are fine but those that are not are terrible. Like you, however, I found they substantially improve with cleaning, though a couple of them are still very poor regardless. My vinyl dealer offers a record cleaning service using an Audio Desk cleaner (about the best there is). I now get this done with every purchase of a new vinyl LP, regardless of where it was pressed. It seems a small price to pay for a significant reduction in these sorts of issues.

Incidentally, I have exactly the same issue with the HiQ reissues made on the original EMI presses in the UK. These titles need a very good clean before the first play as well.

 

Always, and I mean ALWAYS, clean new vinyl. No exceptions. A visual check is worthless, so don't depend on what you see or do not see.

 

The Mono Beatles were Optimal right? Mine are all NM but played with all sorts of noise at first. After washing they all became dead silent. I think it was static rather than dirt.

 

Yes the mono Beatles were pressed there - cleaned all of mine - both sets - and they were fabulous. The reality is, all new vinyl needs to be cleaned. jonstatt, I used to do the same thing as you (because to be honest, who really wants to spend their time cleaning their records?). However I have been burned too many times and now clean my records regardless of the plant it was pressed in. QRP is certainly the best re: not having to clean however there are times stuff just gets on the vinyl.

I also want to recommend to anyone who doesn't have a vacuum cleaning system to invest in one. I am using a cheap Nitty Gritty knock off made by KAB and using my own wet vac...works like a charm.

https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/rcleaner.htm

Looks like they are now going for $169. If you have a shop vac, this is a no brainer. It's the cost of 8 new albums!

One day I will invest in a VPI or another system but for now, this cleans my records beautifully. I look forward to cleaning records now...if you can believe it I find it relaxing.

Our carts (specifically the diamond and cantilever) can take a heck of a beating. We have all found those mysterious big white specs that magically appear and fill up a groove which then makes our needle skip. We are sure that some damage has occurred but they can handle it. What they CAN'T handle is getting caught on shirt sleeves or being bent by accident.

If you are concerned I always recommend going to your dealer that you bought the cart from and ask them to look at it.

 

This is good advice, but many times I'm just too lazy and want to hear my new vinyl.

 

I am too, but I usually (95% of the time) set them aside.

 

Yeah I just got a bit paranoid because the thumps were so loud and out of all proportion to the level of the music, but there was no skip. It also happened about 4-5 times repeatedly about 2 seconds apart (i.e. a revolution of the disc). I have played a lot of LPs since and everything seems fine, but like I said, I got paranoid and convinced myself things were sounding different when of course it was almost certainly in my head. I am guessing that even if there was a total roadblock in the groove, the shape of the stylus and low downward force would always mean it would lift itself out of the groove without too much stress, but probably result in more force on the suspension for that split second, resulting in a thump much louder than it's usual maximum output.

 

That's cool...as long as you don't have unrealistic expectations and don't mind the additional wear and tear on your stylus.

 

Ive just received two DG that were pressed at Optimal and both are poor.. They look fine and have been cleaned not only with a VPI 16.5 but also with a Audiodeske and still sound the same with no improvement..
Make me wonder whether I'll buy any pressed from them again

 

We've had thousands of records pressed at Optimal without issue, I genuinely believe that they are the best plant in Europe, if not the world, I know other people with labels who are of a similar belief, now I'm not saying they can't make mistakes, but firstly is everyone 100% sure that these are indeed Optimal pressings and secondly are these issues caused by Optimal or further up the chain by the labels?

 

I think this KAB record cleaner is a great. It gives people a record cleaner that attaches to the house vacuum, and they can save hundreds. The description did say not to use a shop vac because it is too powerful.

 

Shop vac problem is easily solved by drilling holes in the attachment pipe where you hold it. Then, throw a thumb over a couple of holes for the final rinse for extra suction if you like. Works perfect, cost $40.

 

Modern pressings seem to be far dirtier than I remember, say, 80's pressings. Fingerprints seem to be the norm these days. All new vinyl get's cleaned, no matter what it looks like, that is after I spin it looking for warps. Modern pressings are just dirty for the most part. Obviously there are exceptions.

 

Fortunately Optimal pressings are easy to identify from the matrix codes. In the case I opened this thread with though, Optimal was even quoted in the product listing itself. Only 2500 of the classical record set I mentioned were made. I tried two copies, one of which is numbered around 1200, and the other about 2000. The 2000 copy in general sounds worse with even more crackles and pops than the 1200 version. Some of the clicks and pops are in identical positions, in particular, the Tchaikovsky disc which has repeated clicks on each revolution for about 5 minutes exactly the same on both copies!! Now THAT is very unusual as clicks timed with a revolution of the disc is normally a scratch.

You mentioned problems further up the chain. Well, it could be that some of the defects that are identical on both set of pressings could be, but it depends on who provided the lacquer and who was responsible for keeping it clean etc. But I would suggest the stamper got polluted with debris and wasn't cleaned properly at regular intervals which then made the later copies even worse. This would suggest a lack of continued maintenance and quality control by Optimal.

 

Well the main reason we use them is their quality so your experience is a surprise, it does appear that there are common faults across all copies which does sound like a quality control issue, not only at Optimal, but also at Deutsche Grammaphon as I assume the faults may have been on the test pressings and at the very least they should have checked random finished copies, I guess the days when Deutsche Grammaphon knew how to put out first class vinyl are long gone and perhaps the current staff are more used to CDs, but they really should have caught the issues as should Optimal come to that. I do hope that an increased workload isn't leading to a fall in quality, but for now I genuinely don't know of a better plant so hopefully this is a random issue that should have been spotted, but got through both the label and plant's quality control net.

 

No worries but you are right - you have to be careful what the HP is for the unit. I had asked the company if my vacuum would work and they said it would be fine. Works like a charm. Mine is a wet/dry vac from Sears.

 

I always clean new records, even if they look spotless right out of the sleeve. I usually have some used records to clean anyway so I just do them all at once.

Scott

 

What he said mate!

 

I rarely clean new "audiophile" vinyl before playing. I do clean all vinyl when I am done playing it and put it away. I have had trouble with records pressed by Optimal in Germany. One of the LP's in the Beatles "Mono Box" had the leftovers of somebody's lunch stuck to the record. It was obvious. Other Optimal pressings have led me to believe that they don't have a very clean work environment. I recommend cleaning every record pressed by Optimal thoroughly before and after playing. Clean out the inner sleeve also.

 

I thought I had a link with more factory floor pictures, but I can't find it, anyway if you let the pictures on this link scroll through the third picture shows what is one of the cleanest and tidiest plants I've ever seen, sure everyone has bad days, but I still reckon labels have a responsibility to monitor their own products and withdraw and replace any obviously faulty batches that get through, you have to have pride in what you do.

http://www.optimal-media.com/en/press/vinyl

 

It is GZ Vinyl in Czech Republic that has the pictures with dirty factory floor pictures I believe. I received a disc pressed by them that looked like it was covered in flour!

Some Optimal pressings reach new levels of quality such as Muse's Drones album. One of the best pressing qualities of recent times.

But another example of poor Optimal is the red vinyl version of Air's Virgin Suicides....whereas the black vinyl version is absolutely fine. The red one has a large number of crackles and pops and the third copy I tried had persistent crackle all the way through.

However in the case of Air it is a pressing issue rather than dirt!. With the Classical albums I started the thread with it was a combination of both poor pressing AND dirt!

Either way, in the past I had not rushed for the cleaning machine with Optimal pressings as I thought they were a level above the others. And my dismay with what happened with this set changed my thinking, hence the new thread.