Baerwald, Stevenson, or Löfgren B?

What alignment method are you using primarily?
I've got a Tech sl1200 and I'm using the plastic overhang guage which I believe conforms to Stevenson alignment. I can't for the life of me successfully use a paper protractor, I've tried, so for the time being I'm stuck with the manufacturer's recomendation.

What method are you using? Have you tried others and found that there's a significant difference? Do tell.

 

I'm not so sure the alignment is something you can change, vice it just being the way an arm is designed to make a stylus travel a path across the surface of the record. It's been awhile, but I vaguely remember my Dual 1218 and 1219 conforming more to the Lofgren than anything else so I just tried to get it as close as possible to that setup.

Maybe it's variable... I dunno.

 

Some setups are a lot more adjustable than others, especially more recent/higher end components. I have an older Sony PS-X600, and while it has its good points it allows almost no ability to try different alignments.

I voted None of the Above since I use a MintTractor on my setup, though I think it uses an alignment close to Lofgren B--or maybe Stevenson. I'll have to go back and check.

John K.

 

After much fiddling with the main three, I believe it was Stevenson I settled on.

 

used the old MFSL Geo-Disc that came with my Beatles' half-speed box way back when...Baerwald alignment.

Never felt comfortable with that bit in the instructions about "eyeballing" the pivot point. Thus have not messed with cartridges for about 15 years now...very happy with the Shure, and just replacing the stylus as necessary...

Sold the MFSL box and the Geo-Disc some time ago...I have an NOS V-15 VxMR stashed away for the next rainy day...will cross that bridge when we come to it...

 

Baerwald

If you look at the charts in the following link prepared by John Elison at VA you will see why.

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.h...um=ALL&sortRank=None&sort=date&sortOrder=DESC

If you only play inner grooves, Stevenson would be the best. If you only play between the null points, Lofgren would be the best.

If you play entire sides of records, Baerwald is the best although one might argue that any alignment is essentially a compromise which, of course, it is.

Providing you have the room in the slots on the headshell to shift the cartridge (both to and fro and side to side) you can achieve any of the alignments with any tonearm. Some tonearms come with a manufacturer's proprietary alignment for that particular arm but that's not to say you cannot use another alignment protocol. But as the overhang and null points change, the offset angle will change as well resulting in a cartridge/cantilever that is not aligned "straight" in the headshell which can be confusing to some users.

There is nothing particularly special about the Mint LP (I have one) and the Mints that Yip generates may be any of the big 3 alignments depending on what info you give him when you order.

One might argue that the Mint offers very fine adjustment (you are aligning the cantilever not the cartridge) but in my experience it simply confirmed the alignment/setting I had using a $2 arc protractor I generated using Conrad Hoffman's excellent (and free) software. The $2 cost was cost of photo paper and lamination.

With Conrad's software and a decent laser printer, providing you have the mounting distance for your tonearm you can generate any number of custom arc protractors using any of the big 3 alignment methods which are extremely easy to use and can get you pretty much perfectly aligned in 10-15 minutes-an illuminated loupe from E-bay is a great tool to have for this as well, so you might need to spend another $15-$20.

 

This is one problem with the Geodisc, the bigger problem is the alignment can only be correct for one mounting distance.

I have also found that aligning the cantilever is not always correct. On more than one cartridge I have inspected the stylus is rotated on the cantilever. The stylus is closer to being lined up with the body than the crooked cantilever on these cartridges. The Argo-i and DL160 I have are like this.

 

Can't argue with that, as a player of full LP sides.

 

I've tried Stevenson, Lofgren and Baerwald alignment with my 2m Bronze, and eventually stuck with Baerwald. It seems to offer the best compromise on my turntable (Pro-ject Xpression III).
Needledrops of a few digitally sourced Lp's confirmed this. They have a sharp cut-off at 22 kilohertz and with Baerwald there is far less harmonic distortion in the supersonic range, even at the inner grooves. 16/44.1 sourced records are not a good idea as far as the sound quality is concerned but I've certainly found them useful for confirming alignment!

 

I struggled with all three (Baerwald, Stevenson and Loefgren B) for weeks recently trying to get my new 2M Black stylus to track as well as possible and could never find an alignment that didn't bug me in some way. When I first installed it, I was impressed by the sound but then got stupid and started fiddling with the alignment and suddenly nothing I tried seemed to work. I use Adobe Illustrator for my work, so I was coming up with precise arc protractors according to the calcs at vinylengine.com and wondering why the heck none of them seemed to work. Then I happened upon Rowan McCombe's (aka The Guru) Phono Cartridge Protractor at http://www.vacuumstate.com/fileupload/Guru_protractor.pdf . I printed it on transparency plastic at work (not prone to temperature and humidity problems like paper), then used it to align my cartridge using directions I found at the vinyl asylum (put cartridge in the middle of the slots, angle first with the outer null point, length with the inner).

This was the one that worked for me with my Xpression II. My rig now tracks through problem sibilants better than ever before and there's a palpable sense of space and "rightness" to the overall focus and soundstage from the beginning to end of each side. I know if you dig around vinylengine a bit, the regulars there seem to border on apoplectic when the Guru protractor comes up since it doesn't seem to correspond to their definitions of what should be technically best, but as someone there pointed out, it sounds good even if it doesn't seem to make any sense technically.

 

I'm going to give that one a go Stefan. I've never been completely satisfied with any of the big three. Thanks for the link.

 

and that neat little trick for the spindle hole is very clever

 

Triangle or square works perfectly for spindle holes on printed protractors as well. Do the dots, connect them and cut.

Cutting a decent circle is pretty much impossible.

 

I have a Dual 1219. Maybe I will give the Lofgren a try.

Pat

 

You'll probably remember Blake, I recently re-checked mine using a VinylEngine protractor. With that one, I pricked a hole with a pin like it was suggested and it was fairly accurate, but I think the Triangle or square is cool. Didn't know that one.

 

I'm using Baerwald right now, with pretty good results. I use the MFSL Geo Disc to start, just to get the cartridge alignment "in the neighborhood", and then finish off with the second side of the db Systems Protractor, just to get the alignment as close to perfect as I can.

 

Dumb question: what is overhang? I read it is supposed to be 17.3mm for a Rega arm. How do you measure?

 

Overhang is the distance the stylus extends beyond the center of the record when the arm is swung all the way in to the center.

In other words, if you take a straight line from the arm pivot point through the center of the spindle, the stylus should contact the record at some point beyond the record center. This distance is the overhang.

Keep in mind, however, that the overhang specified by the manufacturer applies only to the method of alignment that they are suggesting. If it is a Baerwald alignment, for example, the overhang is specific to Baerwald. If it is proprietary, which I believe the Rega is, the overhang number applies only to the Rega specific alignment.

Change the alignment protocol and the overhang # will change.

For example, with my Jelco 750D, Jelco specifies a 15 mm overhang. As I don't align to the Jelco specfied alignment but rather Baerwald, my overhang is 17.894 mm. instead.

FWIW, there are many Rega users who do not use the Rega alignment, feeling they get better performance using another method of alignment. They will have a different overhang.

I believe the Technics 1200 series come with an overhang "tool". Get the overhang right and you are essentially aligned (for the Technics recommended alignment). Simple and very effective.

The easiest way to set overhang (and align completely IMO) is with an arc protractor. You'll need (as I think I've stated before) an illuminated loupe to best achieve a very good alignment, but get the overhang right, which is the first step, and usually a pretty quick one with an arc protractor, and, for the most part you are going to align perfectly on the grids without any further work.

Once you use an arc protractor you will never, and I mean never, want to screw around with a standard 2 point grid protractor again.

 

Thanks!

That tip for cutting along the spindle hole works very well.

This is the best one I've worked with.

I used this on all 3 of my (humble) turntables (with humble carts):
Onkyo CP1400A with an AT92E

Pioneer PL-518 with an AT440MLa

and

Yamaha YPD6 with a Denon DL110.

This protractor indicated all 3 were slightly out of line---in spite of my previous efforts.

I tested each with Jenny and Johnny I'm Having Fun Now -- last track on Side 2 -- Committed – one of the main offenders in my collection (painful to listen to with a misaligned cart)--
much improved! The Yamaha YPD6/Denon DL110 sounds especially nice! Even the lowly Onkyo/AT92E didn't sound too shabby.

 

Funny, forgetting it was the gear forum, I saw the thread title and thought it was David Baerwald vs. B.W. Stevenson vs. Nils Lofgren.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. So, it's measured from the exact center point of the spindle/record?

So, is this template considered an arc protractor, or grid type?
http://www.vinylengine.com/images/protractors/rega_arc_baerwald-1.jpg

 

Hi Sam: Yes to question one, measured from exact centre point of spindle (assuming the tonearm is mounted at precisely the exact distance recommended by the tonearm manufacturer-this is key when using an arc protractor!!).

Question 2: Yes, your link is to an arc protractor. Only one null point, or "grid" on it but that that's fine.

The following link is to perhaps the best instructions on the use of an arc protractor that I have seen:

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.h...=/cgi/search.mpl?forum=tuner&searchtext=f500x

In essence, get the stylus to track the arc exactly, (which, if you follow the very simple instructions can be done quite quickly, WAY faster than fiddling with the alignment on a standard two null point grid protractor to get the cartridge/cantilever to align properly on both grids), which sets the correct overhang and you are likely to be very close to 100% aligned on the grid when you switch over to it to confirm your alignment.

But, as I said earlier, the overhang CAN change and be different if you change the null points, which is exactly what happens if you switch from Baerwald to Lofgren, Logren to Stevenson, proprietary to Baerwald (if it is different from Baerwald) etc.

Along with the overhang changing, effective length and offset angle (move away from the tonearm manufacturer's suggested alignment and the cartridge will not sit straight in the headshell as the offset angle will change but you will still be properly aligned!) will change as well. Ultimately, alignment on a pivoted arm is simply about the cartridge being aligned at two null points on the record. Change the null points (which is what Stevenson, Lofgren, Baerwald and/or proprietary tonearm alignments do) and you change all of the above.

But the key thing with an arc protractor is that you must be mounted at the specified mounting distance (pivot to spindle) for the arm for the protractor to work properly. That means, for the most part 1) owning a table purchased from a manufacturer with the arm premounted at the correct distance 2) buying a manufacturer produced arm board specified for the arm you are mounting with the correct mounting distance or 3) being very confident in your ability to create a custom armboard (either yourself or from a machinist) to nail the right mounting distance if you are mounting an aftermarket tonearm on your table.

The advantage of protractors like the Geodisc or the myriad of 2 null point grid protractors (without an arc) is that you can literally use them on any table and mounting distance for the tonearm is not critical. The disadvantage is they are a pain in the *** to use and can drive you crazy and take a lot of time to achieve a decent alignment.

If you have and know the correct mounting distance the arc protractor is the only way to fly and Conrad Hoffman's software can create anything you want or need.

Hope this helps!

 

My Willie Nelson and Procol Harum sound much improved

Unfortunately, Peter Gabriel sssssstill ssssssssoundssssss ssssssibilant. Might have to break it out again and try to dial it in a little better (even though every time I do I think I have it as good as I'm capable of getting it!). Maybe tomorrow when my eyes aren't as tired. Many thanks Stefan.

 

+1 w/ blakep.
The Conrad Hoffman is easy and has always done me right. Before that, I borrowed a db systems protractor, probably one of the best ones. Hardcore, Yip's Mint LP will set you back a bill and drive you nuts in the process.

 

blakep, thanks so much for all the information and tips!

My table/cart was already set up by my dealer, but I get an itch to double-check every now and then. With your instructions, and the Vinyl Engine Rega Baerwald protractor printed on heavy cardstock (didn't feel like getting out to Kinko's tonight for transparency!), I used a flash light and loupe to verify everything was aligned. I have a Geodisc as well. Everything seems very well set, and the sound is good too.

I learned a lot from your posts