Beach Boys Pet Sounds Quandary: Original 1966 mono version or modern stereo remix?*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by brother1002, Apr 16, 2014.

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  1. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Duophonic was simply used as marketing gimmick to sell more records.Dave Dexter gets a lot of grief from Beatles fans,here and elsewhere. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2004-11-25-beatles-box_x.htm
    But what isn't stated enough,is how every single Capitol artist Frank Sinatra,Les Baxter,all of the Capitol country greats got the same treatment when Duophonic came out.

    Just stick to the monos.
     
  2. Greg Carrier

    Greg Carrier Senior Member

    Location:
    Iowa City
    Easy -- both.
     
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  3. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

  4. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    "
    "Lewis: Dave Dexter, who arrogantly said The Beatles were rather hopeless, decided George Martin didn't know how to produce. He slapped echo on and merrily picked songs in a haphazard fashion."
    ------------------------
    These unreliable statements reportedly from "Lewis" about Dave Dexter come from your post.

    I doubt Dave Dexter ever said anything like this, anything so negative about the Beatles and George Martin. Sounds like pure made up propaganda, coming second/third hand from a questionable source.

    And certainly, however the songs were chosen.. and I doubt it was haphazard, the albums OFTEN included singles that the UK albums never included/left off their albums.

    Capitol INCLUDED songs on the Second Album, and other Capitol Beatles albums, that NEVER even made it on to albums in the UK until the Past Masters...decades later.

    The Beatles sold millions and millions with a Capitol sound that Americans loved.

    Beatlemania ESPECIALLY was about America.

    And Capitol helped it come about, making the most of the Beatles. Capitol just had better sound via their Beatles albums than the UK did in the early to mid sixties. They already knew how to produce good sound and great albums by great artists before the Beatles.

    "Just stick to the mono" ....yes so that you can stick with the "original" yet mediocre UK way to hear the Beatles...as well as the original yet mediocre early mono recording of Pet Sounds. It might be that those who like the mono Pet Sounds over the stereo may just be "stereo blind"...so to speak...like those who are color blind are when it comes to colors. Unable to appreciate and/or process stereo.

    Or maybe they just happen to like straight ahead flat and focused power in their music rather than sound that has depth, that is dimensional, life like, and dynamic. People prefer what they prefer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  5. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    "But what isn't stated enough,is how every single Capitol artist Frank Sinatra,Les Baxter,all of the Capitol country greats got the same treatment when Duophonic came out."
    --------------------
    Yes, all of these very successful artists chose to go with Capitol, got the same great Capitol treatment with the same great recording studios, recording techniques, and great recording equipment.

    And since mono did not sound very good then....and since stereo was still being developed and wasn't NEARLY as good as it is now...or as it was even by the late sixties...duophonic and reverb was used to improve and enhance the flat dead/not life-like/static/non-dynamic mono.

    Again...

    "Duophonic is a term used to refer to a sound process by which a monaural recording is turned into a kind of "fake stereo" by splitting the signal into two channels, delaying the left and the right channels by means of delay lines and other circuits, desynchronizing the two channels by fractions of a second, and cutting the bass frequencies in one channel with a high-pass filter, then cutting the treble frequencies in the other channel with a low-pass filter. The result was an artificial stereo effect, without giving the listener the true directional sound characteristics of real stereo. In some cases, the effect was enhanced with reverberation and other technical tricks, sometimes adding stereo echo to mono tracks in an attempt to fool the listener."

    Note: the last five words could have been replaced with....to further enhance the sound experience." (Rather than putting in the editorial comment "in an attempt to fool the listener".)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  6. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    this
     
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  7. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    Why does every Beach Boys thread turn into a Beatles thread? Like their isn't enough Beatles threads in this forum. Especially about Dave Dexter and Duophonic.
     
  8. olsen

    olsen Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    Duophonic is an abomination, but for some reason it works for me on WIBN. That said, play them the stereo. It unearths treasures the mono only hints at. Then follow with the "mono single version" of God Only Knows.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  9. oldsurferdude

    oldsurferdude Forum Resident

    Location:
    detroit, mi. 48150
    Yes, exactly what I thought when I first heard the only version in 1966-the lackluster, flat , no depth, one dimensional, boring mono. :yikes:. Later on, we were treated to the Duophonic version:help:! Frankly, I would have preferred the Edison Tin Foil or cylinder versions over those two.
     
  10. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Pure satire, well done. :)
     
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  11. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
  12. Matheusms

    Matheusms Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    I'm quite young but I grew up listening to Pet Sounds in mono. Some months ago, I heard "Wouldn't It Be Nice" in the radio and it sounded completely different, clear and crisp, with a new life. Then I started to look for that "remaster" and discovered it was the stereo mix. Honestly, I consider myself someone that always look for the original versions, instead of going for modern remixes. But, in this case, I'll come back to the original mono mix only for curiosity sake because my definitive Pet Sounds is in stereo!
     
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  13. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

  14. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Brian is right.I would love to have heard George Martin produce Pet Sounds,or even remix it!
     
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  15. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Assuming this post isn't some lame attempt at satire,it isn't a question of what a listener "prefers".Mono is the way The Beatles or Brian Wilson recorded these records.The way they wanted them to sound.In the case of The Beatles,the stereo mixes were done,after the mono version of the album was in the can.If you're saying that Brian Wilson or John Lennon produced mediocrity,and you'd rather listen to fake stereo,be my guest.
     
  16. It has been Pet Sounds in stereo for me ever since I first got a late 90s mono/stereo twofer in 2001. I like a lot of mono mixes, but not this one. Way too much bass, balance between the instruments is completely wrong like half of the instruments isn't even there. For a young listener I'd play both mixes and let the listener decide what he likes best. I'm sure just about anybody would prefer the stereo mix.
     
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  17. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    Don't judge the mono mix from the 2001 twofer - it sucks, it's almost like they made the mono mix sound crap on there to make the stereo mix sound even more of a difference - I was fooled for a while, then I remembered I had the DCC mono - I know that's an expensive CD to own, but even the standard 1990 mono CD sounds better than the 2000/2001 version....
     
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  18. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    No, clearly we disagree. And Brian Wilson and John Lennon never produced mediocrity. I view both as Great Artists. But there were limitations in sound recording/equipment/techniques in the early to mid sixties that have since been overcome as things have progressed. And mono AM radio still dominated in the early to mid sixties. Not stereo FM....until the late sixties and certainly by the early seventies.

    And John Lennon was VERY critical of some of his Beatles' work, if you pay attention to what he said in the seventies, even as I don't agree with his criticism. He was critical of his own work in the Beatles. And he once called George Martin's production..."that dead Beatles sound"...and didn't want George to produce the Beatles by the time of the White Album...but wisely came back around to George by Abbey Road. Even as much of John's post Beatles work was more open air/alive/less crafted/less perfect in its sound/less pristine. I'm talking about the sound, not the composition, music, and lyrics. The actual recordings.

    And the Beatles never told anyone to hold back the stereo after they had done the original mono. They gladly let the stereo progress forward.

    Additionally, the Beatles never complained (early on) and never asked Capitol to recall the early better sounding records when their American Capitol records were selling in the millions and going to Number One, like the classic original Second Album did.

    The Beatles albums continue to be remastered and improved...as well as remixed in the case of Love, all without John Lennon alive to approve.

    But I guess Yoko gets to speak for John.

    Brian Wilson was involved with the supervision of the stereo mix. So if it's good enough for Brian Wilson to supervise, then the stereo version is good enough for me to enjoy.

    It's the Constant Negativity about Capitol and Stereo that I find so puzzling and extreme.

    "Not the original, not the original."

    Some people probably called the Wright Brothers' first airplane a "Fake Bird". "Not an Original Bird."

    Even George Martin, noting Capitol's significant edge over the UK in the early sixties, remarks that he and the Beatles both were learning and by Revolver and certainly Sgt. Pepper's, were producing better sounding studio albums. And the UK had caught up by then in studio equipment, recording technology, and recording techniques.

    My stereo Pet Sounds states that the Stereo Mix for Pet Sounds was produced and Engineered by Mark Linett at "Your Place Or Mine" Recording Studios, Glendale CA, under the supervision of Brian Wilson.

    Did Brian Wilson supervise a stereo project that should NEVER have been produced because he was SO SATISFIED with the mono?

    Even the video I posted, where George Martin quickly remixes one of Brian's songs, allows Brian to quickly, and dynamically, without needing to Defend The Old, admit that Mr. Martin had Improved on the Original. Within 60 seconds.

    Maybe some people are upset at Brian for daring to speak against his original song/mix?

    I'm glad it was Brian who admitted George quickly improved his original.

    Because anyone else suggesting this would have to be prepared to be viewed as a Traitor To The Original.

    Why is all this remastering going on ?

    For a REASON.

    To IMPROVE THE SOUND.

    And that's OKAY.
     
  19. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    I have not heard the DCC mono so I absolutely cannot comment on it. I am speaking about the mono Pet Sounds I have heard, which is not the DCC mono.
     
  20. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    The DCC mono vinyl is the way to go.I really feel for anyone who did not jump on that one when it came out.My #2 choice would be a minty 1966 US or Canadian Capitol mono.I have not heard any of the other remasterings of the mono.If there were some s****y mono remasterings in 1996,2001,or whenever,you should not judge the DCC or the 1966 original by these.
     
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  21. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    It's funny, a lot of you rake on the 2001 mono Pet Sounds, yet fawn over the 1996-97 release from the Pet Sounds Sessions. I feel the complete opposite way about it. Every time that I try to listen to the PSS CD, it sounds like I'm listening to it on tiny crappy speakers. It just sounds so tinny to me. I've heard just about every release of this album and to my ears nothing sounds as good as the 1972 release with CATP or Steve's DCC CD. Soundwise on the Capitol releases, the 2001 is a far cry from the worst.
     
  22. helter

    helter Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    stereo
     
  23. therebelsell

    therebelsell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I was under the impression that this album, more than most others, had to be heard in mono - it's a labor of love by Brian Wilson and he made it to be heard in mono.

    And to that end, the Brother mono pressing from the 70s apparently improves on the original release.
     
  24. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Again...my stereo Pet Sounds states that the Stereo Mix for Pet Sounds was produced and Engineered by Mark Linett at "Your Place Or Mine" Recording Studios, Glendale CA, under the supervision of Brian Wilson.

    Did Brian Wilson supervise a stereo project that should NEVER have been produced because he was SO SATISFIED with the mono?

    And ONLY intended for the mono to be heard?

    Does not add up.
     
  25. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident

    Back in the day this young audiophile would listen to the mono mix of Pet Sounds and feel that there was something not quite right. Agree or disagree that was my take back then. The way it was produced was that much of a detracter. Was this record taped in a tunnel somewhere. Now I'm definitely not a stereo purist, and have a great appreciation for many many mono recordings. Some albums sound fantastic in mono, but geez, Brian could have done tons better IMO. Who am I to say, since this is an album that is held by so many in such high esteem. Never been able to enjoy the album to get past my personal prejudices regarding what I considered bad choices in production. When the DCC was released I figured that perhaps Steve would bring redemption to this recording and bought in and was disappointed as much as I wanted to like this record.

    On a lark I decided to purchase the HDTracks Stereo version this past Saturday. After one listen in stereo, it grabbed me in a way that it never has before. There was more instrument focus and vocal layers that were previously flat and lifeless in mono came alive.

    If for some reason you've been living in a cave and have never heard Pet Sounds or if you've heard it and never been able to appreciate the album , I would highly recommend buying the stereo version and giving it a shot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
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