Beatles CD singles & EP boxes - same mastering?

Now that I reread my post, I should double check about I'll Get You. I may be wrong. I will perform the test and get back to you.

Here is the out of phase test. I have a sound editor on my computer at home. On it I open the file from the CD, and then I separate the stereo track, so I can edit the two tracks separately. I take the left channel and I use the function on the editor to invert it. So then every valley on the sound wave becomes a peak and every peak becomes a valley. If it is in fact a true mono recording, the left channel being inverted should be the mirror image of the right channel. At this point I edit the tracks to mono (on my editor this means just changing the properties on each track) and then I listen to the track. If it was true mono, you should hear nothing because the left channel will cancel out the right channel. If there were differences between the two, you will hear them when you play the track. On Please Please Me for example, you will hear the track very faintly and with a bit of echo. That essentially means it is out of phase.

 

Here's why, and you can try something fun...

Listen carefully to the (blue cover) Rarities in stereo with headphones. Those mono tapes were played with a stereo head the lp was mastered with them in that way. Listen carefully and you will hear the splices run by from one channel to the other. That's why they sound bad when you put the Y cable in. On the EMI Singles cd's, they played the mono tapes back with a stereo head and then they they put the Y cable in for you and made 'em sound sub-par when they mastered them. So, if you subtract the differences (using the cd's) you hear very little difference even though they're swishing with out of phase info.

Hope you can understand what I'm saying here... The bottom line is, if you want to hear what a mono tape with splices sounds like when played back over a stereo head, listen to the blue cover Rarites!

 

Man, is this a great forum or what?

O.K., I'm going to stay up late & try & get an OOPS signal. I have this old bookmark, http://www.beatletracks.com/btoops2.html called "How To Hear The OOPS Effect", and I've just kept putting it off.

Hmm, looks like I need a trip to Radio Shack. Again.

I had just burned my "perfect copy of MONO "With The Beatles and Bonus Tracks", and made a car copy, and some best friend copies. So many times I think I've tracked down a "great listening/sounds like the original vinyl" copy or pressing, I learn I don't quite have this down yet. All I want is one copy of each Beatles track, in mono & stereo as applicable, that sounds great. I'm 100% satisfied with my EP Collection on Compact Disc, and my U.K. 1st pressings, but everything else seems to be more than a little off... :whining:

Be seeing you,
Doug Piero Carey

 

If you OOPS the stereo transfer of "She Loves You", can you hear where the edits are? Just wondering.

 

Only if EMI put it out that way, and the only place I know of where they released mono tapes played back over a stereo head and not reduced to mono is the blue cover Rarities album. Is "She Loves You" on there? I really can't remember, but I don't think it is. If it is, it must be a mono copy tape, I would think. I think "I'll Get You" is on there though, and I think that has quite a few edits.

 

Wait a minute. Another side and MNE are contradicting each other here. If MNE is right, and EMI "put the Y cable in for you", then both channels are out of phase -- identical, but out of phase. In that case, simply duplicating one channel will not fix the problem. If another side is right, the two channels are not identical; rather, they preserve the out of phase information of the respective L + R channels played back on a stereo deck. In that case, it would be possible to fix the out of phase problem by duplicating one channel.

Steve seems to agree with MNE, but another side says he's done the inversion test proving the opposite. Another side, can you post the files somewhere?

 

Thanks, I think I understand what you're saying, and I'm listening to this now.

So I'm hearing a mastering error, that is not an out-of-phase error, but just what you describe. And interestingly, this mastering error also is revealed by playing with a double-Y cable because, around the splices, the swishing signal noises things up, so you don't hear the notes clearly. I hope I do understand this right. This is fun!

Well, it looks like I need to track down an original U.K. Parlophone 45 of "She Loves You" c/w "I'll Get You" with a B-side in Ex condition.

Cheers,
Doug Carey

 

mne563 is right!

But remember, I'm only talking about the blue cover Rarities lp. As for cd releases, you're stuck, EMI has already "done" you.

 

I agree with my good friend mne, I think Steve was referring to the final comment about hearing the edits in stereo with the Rarities LP.

I don't agree that EMI put the mono tape through the stereo machine and then turned it back into mono digitally, though. If that were the case then the two channels would be the same, and they're not. The first two CD's were done like that, and they are truly mono even if they got there in a roundabout way. An out of phase test shows nothing in the case of the first two CD's. The only way that would be true, is if they applied different EQ to each channel, and I highly doubt that.

 

I can, but I may not get to it this weekend.

I should do a test of the first 8 songs, and post my results.

 

I see, I though the process was done at the digital stage. But you are referring to PPM and With the Beatles, not the CD single box, right?

 

Well, the two channels (again, on the blue cover Rarities lp) will be essentually identical, but you will hear small phase differences when you subtract one channel from the other, and the the biggest "clunk" you will hear will be any edits.

If you are hearing differences in phase with EMI's mono cd's, that's a problem in your playback chain or EMI's end-mastering, I guess.

 

I understand that the first few songs are out of phase. But if the engineer (or whoever) hit the mono button on the console, then the track would be mono even if it was all screwed up anyway. So the two channels would be the same. When I do an out of phase test on From Me to You, I hear a difference between the two channels. Can that be possible if the mono button was pressed, Steve?

 

I don't think it's a playback problem, because on real mono tracks the out of phase test shows nothing. For instance I did the test to see if there was any mono widening on Sinatra CD's from the UK, and all but one showed absolutely nothing when doing the test. On Songs for Swingin' Lovers, however, I could hear the mono widening and out of phase issues.

 

That makes sense. Thanks Steve.

 

Another Side:
You and I care about the same stupid stuff!

Next time I'm in S.F. (usually to see Dylan) we must get together for an Anchor Steem draft...

 

I set up an OOPSed speaker tonight, and played my blue cover Rarities album.

First I played a true mono LP (UA AHDN) with L+R summed, to hear what mono should do when OOPSed. The signal (almost) vanished. Just a little bleedthrough of a clean sounding signal.

When I play the stereo-cut mono tracks from Rarities, and sum L+R, it sounds like an old AM radio that has another station interfering with the signal, making it swish etc. I guess I'm hearing why I wouldn't want to sum L+R when listening to this LP! It sounds horrible!

Cheers,
Doug Piero Carey

 

The vinyl 45 is correct, but also the version on the Japanese pressed UK version of the "Rarities" album is mighty fine too.

 

Please tell me how you did this test. I wired one of my speakers OOP last night and played my red mono BFS, but all that happened was that the center image disappeared -- just what you'd expect with speakers wired OOP.