Beatles Duophonic Mixes

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by fsfang2, Apr 3, 2011.

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  1. dewey02

    dewey02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The mid-South.
    All the talk of Beatles, Duophonic, and reverb reminded me that in the 1960's I had a reverb unit I installed in my car. It delayed the sound to a rear speaker I installed. I think AM (that's almost of us had in our cars) disc jockeys also added reverb to their broadcasts too. Even without my reverb on, the DJs sounded like they were talking from inside a deep garbage can.
     
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  2. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    It was me who brought this up in another thread. We were discussing the US mono versions of 'I Feel Fine' and 'She's A Woman', with extra reverb apparently added at EMI. That got me wondering if any other tracks had lots of (US-style) reverb added by EMI. I still have my doubts that the fake-stereo 'Yes It Is' was a Capitol creation. Why would they do their previous 'fake-stereo' processing their usual way, then change it for YII, and then go back to the old way for 'Ticket To Ride'?

    Also brought up was another song from the same sessions, 'That Means A Lot'. TONS of reverb on that. The 'Anthology' mix was no doubt created from an original reverb-y mono mix, though I'm not exactly sure when it was given the fake-stereo treatment. But the processing seems to be very similar to YII, with the track almost in mono but with extra reverb mainly noticeable on the left.

    As you know, two Larry Williams covers were recorded specifically for 'Beatles VI' a month before the album's release. I don't know if TMAL was ever considered to fill that gap, but it sounds almost tailor-made for a Capitol album, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
  3. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    So,how does Duophonic differ from the fake stereo RCA used in the 60s,or the fake stereo CBS/Epic applied to the DC5 or Yardbirds records?
     
  4. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    I'm probably in the minority on this, but I find it encouraging that future generations of Beatles fans, with their iTunes remastered versions of the US and UK catalogs, will have no idea what "Duophonic" was - or how it sounded.
     
  5. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Would this mean there are record club albums besides Yesterday and Today that are true stereo?
     
  6. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    All the Yma Sumac albums were issued in Duophonic in the early 60s.So those were the tapes or metals they used for the reissues.
     
  7. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
     
  8. empirelvr

    empirelvr "That's *just* the way it IS!" - Paul Anka

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    RCA's system was similar, the time delay between channels being the most obvious similarity. There had to be differences though, because Capitol was able to patent the Duophonic process. My guess is they were close in theory, but differed in how the effect was achieved.

    The CBS/Epic process as I remember from the one DC5 fake stereo album I have (Greatest Hits) seemed to throw everything at it except a delay between the channels. I remember getting a headache listening to the LP through headphones when I was a kid.
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    The real (original CBS/Epic) process was not like the DC5 crap at all. Unlike Capitol and RCA-Victor with their delay tape heads, Columbia used various echo chambers "tuned in" to different parts of the frequency spectrum. If you listen to the fake stereo broadway LP of KISMET for example, it can be quite effective. Must have been very time consuming to "rechannel" in that way. Interesting to note on the DC5 stuff they didn't bother. The first ones were just EQ'd badly and the later ones had a dreadful split feed (remember "Try Too Hard"?, horrible).

    Oh, don't forget the Dave Dexter like CARRIE ANNE Hollies album.
     
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  10. empirelvr

    empirelvr "That's *just* the way it IS!" - Paul Anka

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    I know what you're talking about. I have a Benny Goodman LP that had that. I remember the technical blurb about the way they did it too, which was as you said.

    I can proudly say I have never heard that particular version. I count myself lucky going by what I have heard about it.

    Oh yeah..Evolution. A Dave Dexter copy right down to the credit on the back of the LP: "Produced by Ron Richards. Prepared for release in the U.S.A. by Manny Kellem."
     
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  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    It's funny, the Epic EVOLUTION album is actually old-school Columbia rechanneling, using various chambers but done on an already stereo mix. Just beyond dreadful.

    Of course, if you listen to the UK stereo mix of CARRIE ANNE it's beyond dreadful as well, but in a different way.
     
  12. empirelvr

    empirelvr "That's *just* the way it IS!" - Paul Anka

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Imperial did that to the Hollies as well! One of their early albums (either the Beat Group or Bus Stop LP...can't remember which) was ostensibly a rechanneled album, but the real stereo cuts on it also were rechanneled making it sound very odd indeed! The Hollies' had horrible luck sound wise in the USA it seems.

    At least with the UK stereo mix, hitting "mono" solves the problem nicely.
     
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    There is one cut on the original WHO "Meaty" album that had a true stereo cut rechanneled by error. Can't remember which one but it really surprised me.
     
  14. empirelvr

    empirelvr "That's *just* the way it IS!" - Paul Anka

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    I'll have to dig out and check my LP. Was that across all pressings or only on the very first? I can't recall hearing anything on that LP that sounded "off" like that. (I do have a Decca pressing. No idea how early it is though.) Hmmmm....
     
  15. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    Thanks for posting this! I found it very informative, and I may be the only one on this forum, but I like the sound of Duophonic! Not saying it should be used over true stereo, and from listening to this, that was never the aim. Sure brought some of those old mono recordings to life!
     
  16. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    I agree with you, however, I must admit that even I find a certain charm in the Duophonic version of "I Want To Hold Your Hand". Even then, I don't know if it is because it is what I grew up with.
     
  17. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    What was a bummer that there was nothing on the cover or label noting that it was Duophonic.
    It was a re-issue of the 16-song LP, a re-cut with the "mastered by capitol" stamp from the early 1980's.

    Happy Jack (my guess) since it pops up in true stereo from time to time, and bad fake stereo more often. You can tell the stereo mix since Townsend's "I Saw Ya'" will be heard on one channel.
     
  18. PhoffiFozz

    PhoffiFozz Forum Resident

    I still believe the only reason that "That Means a Lot" EVER got that reverb (and why they tried to remake it after the 'master' take was finished) is because of the tape defect on the song, which was apparently on the master tape, was too noticeable to ignore.

    I really can't see (especially when no documentation survives to support it) why EMI would make a 'fake stereo' mix of "Yes It Is"... ever. Although odd that Capitol would change their process for the one song, it seems like they were often doing odd things in this vein. "Ticket to Ride" & "Yes It Is" were both sent to the US as mono masters for the single and Capitol never requested a stereo mix, so therefore it almost has to be Capitol who would make the fake stereo...
     
  19. PhoffiFozz

    PhoffiFozz Forum Resident

    "I'm a Boy" by chance? That always sounded stereo and fake stereo at the same time to me...
     
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  20. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    Could well be. But George Martin appeared to be catering to the US a little more at that time, sending over reverbed mono mixes of IFF and SAW that were used on the previous album (and single), and setting up the first specific 'recording session for the US' in order to complete 'Beatles VI' at short notice. Plus the recent reverb experimentation on TMAL. And TTR and YII were sent to Capitol at the same time. Why make the former duophonic but for the latter just add reverb in one channel?

    I agree it seems odd, but certainly no more so than IFF and SAW (and would you trust Capitol to do any fake-stereo after what they did to those two? ;)). And the tape damage theory might be the reason why YII had to be fake-stereo. George Martin just helping to rush the album out. It's just a hunch, but it would be nice to find out for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
  21. GV1967

    GV1967 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeastern US

    Oh man. I remember first hearing that on the "More Greatest Hits" LP. Horrible, indeed.
     
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Possibly the worst ever fake stereo song ever botched. "TRY TO HARD" on stereo Epic, USA.
     
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  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Could be the one..
     
  24. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    I need to listen to the two early 70s Greatest Hits again.The Epic that's supposed to be true stereo,and the one on the blue UK Starline.All my 60s Lps on DC5 are mono,from a mix of countries.The Capitol 6000 is my favorite.
     
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