Beatles ‘froze out’ George Martin on White Album

Was he eating white chocolate?...

 

Read the "In The Studio" section of this page.

https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/ob-la-di-ob-la-da/

42h of tape for one song is a LOT of takes. A dozen of the whole band playing a single song in a day would wipe me out too.

 

Also, a couple of photos actually used on HELP! (UK back cover) and Revolver (front cover, including one also found on the 'white album' poster).

 

Granted it's easy for me to say in retrospect but... things would have to be pretty damn toxic for me to walk out of a Beatles White Album recording session. Maybe if I was being waterboarded between takes.

 

Sitting in on a session with your favorite band is different from spending weeks or months in the studio doing a job under conditions that may be less than relaxed.

Norman Smith indicated he was tired of Beatles sessions by the time of Rubber Soul, and some engineers refused to work with them at all.

 

In Recording Sessions it says engineers referred to being assigned to a Beatles project as “drawing the short straw.”

 

Well, I did write "easy for me to say." I understand the band were difficult to work with and it was probably stressful but they are not making any more Beatles recording. sessions last time I looked. As an engineer or producer this was an opportunity to help shape history. Emerick should probably have quit and become a coal miner for perspective.

 

Nice to see you chiming in Luke. The story of the Beatles liberating the eight-track is just that, a story? Lewisohn didn't seem to think so. Here's here's account:

"Recording 'Dear Prudence' at Trident had whetted the Beatles appetites:
they now wanted ALL of their recordings to be eight-track. When they
got wind of the fact that Abbey Road did have an eight-track machine,
the 3M model in Frank Thompson's office, they decided to liberate it."

Now, we don't know if this account is FACT, but it doesn't seem that Martin had any choice in the matter and that Beatles had no prior knowledge that the machine was at EMI. Apparently they did liberate it from Thompson's office which almost led to the firing of technical engineer, Dave Harries. The only feature that was different, that Harries mentioned, was the output which needed to be muted otherwise they could hear the tape spooling over the heads. Something that led to some innovative scatting by the Beatles on the long version of Helter Skelter. Unless there was something radically different this issue seems minor indeed. More likely Martin simply preferred the Studer and wanted nothing to do with any eight-track machine at this point. Not dissimilar to his reluctance to use stereo early on.

Being jerks in the studio seems a fairly silly reason to quit. And since Geoff left the MMT sessions 8 or 9 months earlier he should have known that things could get uptight at times. It's not like they became jerks overnight. Certainly by 1966 they knew what they wanted and didn't take as kindly to Martin's suggestions... not blindly anyway. The Pepper sessions also took 6 months... and one would imagine they were also filled with happy and contentious times. I just think Geoff was particularly sensitive to things... and remains so to this day. Ron

 

There's an EMI memo to George Martin reproduced in Recording The Beatles. It outlines Martin's issues with the 3M machines, reiterates his decision to continue using the Studer machines, and indicates that an unmodified M23 will remain available for his use should be change his mind. This was at the start of the White Album sessions.

The main modifications concerning The Beatles were the addition of an oscillator input for vari-speed and a second set of playback amplifiers to enable simultaneous monitoring of the record (sync) and playback heads, which (among other things) enabled the use of ADT.

FYI, the 27 minute Helter Skelter was recorded in July on 4-track. The quirk with that recording was the tape on the (mono, BTR) echo machine ran out and had to be rewound during the take.

See above. Other engineers refused to work with The Beatles at all.

A toxic environment is a toxic environment regardless of whether you're working retail or in the studio with the most popular band in the world.

 

Except this doesn't appear to be true. In fact, the crew remained very stable. After Norm Smith left, the ONLY engineers (on the EMI sessions) were Geoff Emerick, Ken Scott, Glyn Johns, Jeff Jarratt and Phil McDonald. Even the tape ops were remarkably stable. Phil McDonald for the bulk of Revolver, Richard Lush most of Sgt. Pepper. John Smith and Lush for the White Album, and John Kurlander for the bulk of Abbey Road. Only Alan Parsons and Chris Blair popped up here and there. I'm unaware of Parsons complaining about working with the Beatles. So is Chris Blair the one individual who complained about being given the short straw? It really seems the statement is more urban legend than reality-based. Ron

 

Other engineers worked at EMI at the time.

 

In addition, whether or not a band member is yelling or cursing at you -- the engineer or producer -- is actually beside the point.

I've been in the studio when band members started arguing with each other over the phrasing and harmonies of backing vocals. Once the name calling started flying, it changes the whole mood and tone of the session. After something like this happens, it affects the way everyone working on the project interacts with each other. Of course, it's a producer's job to manage group dynamics to an extant, but if many sessions put the producer in the role of a "marriage arbitrator" -- especially when the band is now starting to consider you just "added baggage" -- one could relate to a producer thinking, "I'd like to get back working with a young, driven band that is hungry for a hit record..."

 

That last quote you cite wasn't me. Not sure what happened there.

 

Fixed.

 

This going to get ugly! Paul is starting to grow his "let it be" beard!

 

Yes, but they got some groovy sounds!

 

If that's the case, too bad they couldn't "produce" some of their pretty bad sounding solo albums as well as they "produced" TWA.

 

Paul cussed George Martin out during the ordeal of Ob La Di.

 

Of course, but that doesn't diminish the fact they used a stable group over many years. Ron

 

In what way were they stable? Norman Smith left after Rubber Soul, indicating he didn't like the direction they were going. Geoff Emerick left twice, apparently contentiously at least once. There were 3 different primary engineers over the course of the Abbey Road sessions. Other engineers either refused to work on Beatles sessions or expressed a desire not to.

Also, FYI, here is the letter regarding the 8-track. One mistake: it wasn't to George Martin, but rather from chief engineer Bill Livy to studio manager Alan Stagg (bolding mine):

MR. STAGG.

14th May 1968.

THE BEATLES - 3M 8 TRACK RECORDER.

This memo deals with my discussion with Mr. George Martin today with reference to the possible use of an 8 -track tape recorders for the Beatles recording sessions commencing Wednesday 15th May.

The following points were explained:-

The 8 - track recorder was delivered to us on Tuesday 9th May and has been set-up and testing is almost completed. We have adjusted the machine to operate at signal levels appropriate to our system and it is therefore ready for use if required.

This machine, in common with all other 8 - track machine at present available, does not include all the facilities which are present on the Magnetofon and Studer 4 track machines. Our multitrack recording technique depends largely upon these facilities, so that careful consideration should be given to the desirability of using this machine in its present condition.

The drawbacks at the present moment are:-

(a) Synchronous replay is available on each track separately, but only by switching off the normal tape replay of that track.

(b) No synchronous replay track combining is possible.

(c) No timing clock is fitted.

In addition, the mixer in No.2 will record only 4 tracks simultaneously and with normal setting-up only 4 Line Outs from the tape machine can be connected to the monitoring circuits.

In view of these points, Mr. Martin said that the facilities existing on the 4 track machines were essential and therefore he would not use the 8-track for the Beatles sessions. He would like to be informed as soon as the modifications necessary to incorporate these facilities had been carried out.

Notwithstanding Mr. Martins' statement, the 8-track machine will be maintained in readiness for use in its existing condition, and modifications will be initiated on the second machine, delivery of which is expected within a week.

W.H. Livy.

----------------------------------

Note the memo is from two weeks before the start of the White Album sessions.

 

Just had a digestive in tribute to the freezing atmos

 

George Martin knew what he was doing and had amassed a vast amount of experience even before meeting the Beatles. And he kept learning with the Beatles. And they LET him help them. The sound on the White album is more monochromatic and less refined. The Beatles wanted raw and that's what they got. They were as good as many others who produced that kind of sound in the late Sixties. But the White album shines less because they thought they had outgrown George Martin. Their best sounding album is Peppers. That equipment wasn't outdated. And the tracks on Peppers were arranged so that the sounds and vocals didn't crowd each other out. Thank you George Martin. Of course, they were a team then. The Beatles and George Martin never worked better together than in 1967 and it was downhill, soundwise, from there.

 

It's well known that George Martin suggested that they condense it down to a single album, but the Beatles prevailed in releasing it as a double. However, as for Martin being "frozen out", didn't he write the brass and string arrangements on at least 8 of the songs? I don't think he was just reading the paper and eating chocolate through all of the sessions.

 

I'm aware of the quote, but still don't understand how or why you think it alters my original remarks... that the Beatles liberated the machine after using the eight-track facilities at Trident. Apparently THEY were unaware that EMI had such a machine. Oh, did EMI receive a second, modified machine sometime during the sessions? It seems that Martin had no desire to use it because he favored the setup as it was.

Specifically, WHO refused to be part of the Beatles sessions? It's easy to say others refused, but in reality it seems the same general crew worked for years and years. Geoff, Ken and Phil all were promoted from being tape ops to engineers as each chief engineer moved on. If one of them left for any reason, the others were waiting to take their position. As it was, producers often worked with their own crew... i.e Norrie Paramor and Malcolm Addey. Ron Richards and Peter Bown, etc... I'd be interested knowing which engineers actually refused to work with the Beatles. Ron

 

I disagree with your last sentence; Abbey Road sounds at least as great as Pepper.