Beatles Japan Red Mono LP's

Dale, thanks for the new samples. Once the volume is equalized between the 2 clips the differences are not as great (at least on my small monitor speakers) as those on the earlier tracks you posted.

For those with complete '82 sets, congratulations, their worth may have increased after this thread; for the rest of us, the '82 copies might become a more expensive proposition on eBay.

 

It's true--on Sgt Pepper the differences aren't as stark as on PPM and WTB, even if differences are still apparent.

Those samples were recorded at the same level: it seems they were mastered at differing volumes.

As for the values changing, well, I think more discussion is warranted. The fact is I think the '86s sound more like the UK '82s do. I think the '82s sound the way they do because of some (albeit professional) EQ futzing, or some kind of processing. So what is 'audiophile' is up to debate.

Dale

 

Dale, thanks for the clips.

I last heard a red JPN mono about 16 years ago,
I thought the resolution was very impressive.

They were BFS and SPLHCB, both '82's.

They did not sound as "hot" as the stereo counterparts. I had all my JPN vinyl by late '83.
The fake stereo tracks on MMT and PPM were REALLY disappointing.

 

Hi Tony and All,

Thanks for your note. Here's what I think on these:

I would be very surprised if any sort of remastering of the 1982 master tape was done to produce the 1986 version.

However, it would appear, at least from my copies of the 1982 and 1986 versions of "With The Beatles" that different lacquers (acetates) were cut, and that different metal mothers were created and used. Also, they used a slightly different numbering system. For example, on side 1 of the 1982 version, we see YEX-110-M as an identifier on both the disk dead wax area and in the label text, while this appears as YEX-110-D on the 1986 version. On side 2, we have YEX-111-M on the 1982 version and YEX-111-D on the 1986. On both sides, the dead wax is a little wider on the 1982 version.

Thus, in the strictest sense, the disks are not 100% physically identical pressings, and I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. What I was trying to do in the book is to help collectors quickly distinguish between the two versions, both of which are fairly limited and valuable.

Sound differences between the 1982 and 1986 versions aside, many collectors believe that both are far superior to the many other versions produced around the world.

Jason Anjoorian

 

Thanks Jason and welcome to the forum. We knew something was up after the listening comparisons we did--we appreciate your confirming out observations that something was different between the two reissues, even if a remastering did not take place.

It does interested me, however, that two reissues using the same tape and mastering can sound so different.

Cheers,
Dale

 

We should all consider ourselves fortunate that Jason has taken the time to join this Forum and contribute to this discussion.

Jason, thank you. Your book is an essential resource.

 

Is the 'dog whistle/ultra-high tone' on the end of SPLHCB JPN reds? Theoretically it shouldn't be as Harry Moss is quoted as saying he cut that in the room during the final cut for the metal parts. But if SPLHCB was released around the world NOT from UK stampers but from tape dupes (the SPLLHCB pressed in NZ from UK parts.. has dog whistle intact) then whoever was cutting would have to add the 15 kilocycles during the disc cutting. Did this occur anywhere in the world?

 

It's not on the JPN '86, it is on the JPN '82. On the JPN '82, it doesn't sound nearly as bright as on my UK '82.

Dale

 

Thanks very much for your kind words, Peter. I'm happy to help out if I can.

Jason

 

Thanks for the clarification Jason, and welcome to the forum.

What you are describing with the '82 LP as having wider dead wax area fits in with the sonic differences already detailed earlier; it was obviously cut differently. The visual observations correlate with the listening comparison. To me it's no great surprise that they sound dissimilar as there are also variations between the Parlophone lacquers, presumably also cut from the same master tape each time.

 

Thanks to Jason and everyone who has posted to this thread - this is one that needs to be archived.

 

FOR SURE.

 

So whoever cut the JPN '82 red wax mono knew to put the whistle in. Or someone at Parlophone/EMI UK made a dupe tape with the whistle stuck on the end. On the '86 they either worked from a different tape or just didn't know about the whistle?

 

In Japan, with regard to anything Beatles, I can't hardly believe they didn't know about the whistle tone, not when taking all the care they did with the reissues. I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely, especially for a series that had appeal and was marketed to an audiophile/fanatic customer. I don't know about you, but I was not keyed into mono in much of any way at all between 1982 and 1986. In fact, I was pretty disappointed when any particular album I wanted was only available in mono.

You have to remember that Japan is a country that has, in addition to its own Beatles releases, released/re-issued virtually every Beatles album incarnation released in the UK, in the US, along with re-issuing album comps released in other countries (the German "Beatles Beat" and the Italian "The Beatles in Italy for example). I mean, demand was still high enough as late as the mid-70s that Japan reissued all of the US Beatles album titles...a kind of overkill all its own IMO.

Not that there haven't been mistakes in the past--one glaring example was the EAS-era (mid to late-70s) stereo re-issue of Please Please Me, which included some fake stereo (on There's A Place and Twist and Shout IIRC) from somewhere...

But, generally speaking, Japan is a country that went gaga over The Beatles in a way that I don't think, at least in some ways, was repeated elsewhere. There is still a slick, professional looking magazine published here that is devoted to all things Beatles--there may be more. There are at least 4 record stores in the Tokyo area that deal in nothing but Beatles records and memorabilia...even one of the middle of the road stores not too far from where I live has a dedicated Beatles (boot) CD and DVD section, and what they carry is not cheap.

I know, these are just anecdotes, but I just don't think they'd have been unaware of it as much as I think they couldn't do anything about it. I could be wrong though...

Dale

 

Dale, many members here may know a lot about music and gear, but very little about Japan and its many fascinating cutural aspects. I really do not consider what you have said here mere anecdotes. It paints a picture of how dedicated and knowledgeable collectors in Japan were and are, while helping us understand the respect those reissues have gotten by those responsible for preparing them.

I really hope I can visit Japan soon and have some "anecdotes" of my own...

I really dig this thread Lads!

 

Thanks. One more little anecdote about Japanese record collecting and collectors. Sorry if it's a bit of a threadcrap. I think this says something about Japanese dedication to their hobbies. In about 1977 or 1978 I worked in a little record store in Northern California run by a core record collector--a man who'd been collecting since the mid-to-late sixties.

Anyway, he had a 45 of a rare 1965 bit of garage psych, I've forgotten what it was now, but I remember it having a punky Mick Jagger/Stones impression vocal and a sax solo. IIRC maybe 500 copies pressed either in Eugene, Oregon or maybe another locale, possibly in Northern California. Budget press, B-side was another group entirely. By '77 or '78, only a handful were known to exist. As a teenager then, I thought it was quite cool and comp'd it onto a proto-punk cassette along with the 13th Floor Elevators and San Diego's Magic Mushrooms, The Flamin' Groovies and others. Steve, the owner, never advertised that he had a copy, nor was it for sale. One day he got off the phone and said, "that was Japan. Someone found out I had copy of X. Man..."

Someone in Japan had done some serious research.

Dale

 

Cool story! Thanks Dale!

And now back to our scheduled programming...

 

Great to have you here Jason ! Thank you for your post. Thanks to Tony, also.

I'd also like to echo Peter's words: I find your book absolutely indispensable. Marvelous work !

 

I have a question (which may have already been asked and answered, as I have not read the entire thread):

How is it that the JPN Red Monos have YEX stampers, when the UK (and Germany and Holland, etc.) have XEX for Mono and YEX for Stereo?

 

Just wanted to thank everybody for a very interesting read! Great work!

- So as of now: For all titles except for "Rubber Soul" and "A Hard Day's Night", Japanese 1982 red vinyls are considered definitive?

 

Being a regular attendee of the Liverpool Convention since the late eighties, it was apparent that even back then a lot of mint/excellent condition original y/b Parlophone albums were being bought by Japanese visitors. 'Dedicated' doesn't even begin to describe them adequately. Whereas British and European collectors would usually try to haggle or part exchange for y/b albums, the Japanese would hand over the dosh without question. I was there when a dealer had the 'shell' Help! album with 'offers' written on a label. A Japanese guy simply said to the dealer ''Twelve hundred?'' and walked away with it. No haggle, nothing. Cold, hard cash.

 

I was talking to one of the guys at the Shinjuku Disk Union about a year ago (the senior clerk on the 60s vinyl floor where the Beatles stock is kept) and he said he reckoned that a lot of his customers spend half their monthly salary on records! These aren't the kind of buyers who load up on arm fulls of records, they're like the guy you described buying the Shell "Help!" -- they want the best and the rarest. And haggling the price just isn't part of Japanese culture...

Dale

 

How rare is a Shell logo "Help" album? Are we talking $1200 or 1200 pounds?

 

They are pretty rare and were reportedly made for Dutch EMI employess back in the 70's.

I'd say $1,200 is pretty high for one even in near mint shape.

 

I've seen ex/mint copies go for around £300/£400. Seems to be about average over here. The one I described at the Liverpool convention was in the very early nineties. VERY big money.