Beatles Mono Box set: Interview With Michael Fremer video

Why should he do that? He clearly loves vinyl because he prefers the sound. And that **is** what he says. So what is wrong with saying that? It's the truth.....

What pseudo science are you referring to? Can you cite specific examples of Fremer offering up pseudo science as actual science? I agree that anyone pushing pseudo science as actual science in any sort of journalistic situation is doing his or her readers a disservice.

No. Vinyl is inanimate. It can't speak for itself. audiophile vinyl is still a niche market even though it is enjoying extraordinary growth. But the excellence of vinyl has to be told by journalists like Fremer. No doubt that has a lot to do with it's growth in the market place and no doubt that growth has helped spawn a great deal of expansion and that is a good thing for vinyl enthusiasts. So no, it should not and does not speak for itself and Fremer has been very important in the health and well being of the state of audiophile vinyl.

The messiah reference is really kind of obnoxious. Clearly any commercial product does need a campaign and spokespersons such as Fremer have done much to promote many various products over the years.

Fremer has had a very significant role in that resurgence of audiophile vinyl and to suggest he is doing anyone a disservice has the fowl stench of coming from a place of unhappiness with the amazing resurgence of vinyl in the market place.

 

Messiah="a leader or savior of a particular group or cause." (Vinyl)

Actually I read that somewhere.....so it does kinda fit. No dis-respect as it is fairly accurate.

Not unhappy at all here.
But I find some of his comments not accurate or totally genuine. We simply disagree.
I am glad you find his role important. (seriously)

Many disagree with a lot of what he says, and many question his views and motives. All disagreement and scrutiny is not based on hatred or unhappiness, but mostly a difference of opinion.

If we all totally agreed, it would be quite boring.
I question everything I read or see or hear. No hatred or bad feelings.

I could go part by part through his interview and pick it apart and disagree with a lot of it, as could many.

Lets just agree, that he is very excited about vinyl, and maybe at times, in his excitement, tends to exaggerate or embellish his opinions, as factual.

 

You accused the man of pushing pseudo science on his readers as actual science. That is a lot different than just "disagreeing." I asked you to cite examples and you failed to do so. This is not the same thing as not liking the same flavor of ice cream. You challenged his integrity as a journalist and claimed he has a hidden agenda that does his readers a disservice. Fremer is a forum member Kevin. If you are going to accuse him of pushing pseudo science as a journalist and claim he has a hidden agenda you better have the goods to back it up. That goes WAAAAAAAY beyond "we simply disagree."

The common understanding of "Messiah" has religious overtones. It goes back to the common insult of calling someone a religious zealot out of a disagreement. Happens quite a bit on audiophile forums and it is obnoxious.

 

Oddly Scott, you never come to my defense, as you are with Mr Fremer.

I know he is a member of the forum, and I still say his views are so strong, that they tend to color his ability to see things realistically.

That is true of all of us, except I do not push my likes onto others.

I never challenged his "Integrity", but I find that many ( not just him ) that have an unusually strong opinion about something and a very bad opinion about most other things, are often hard to relate to or take seriously. They tend to not hear or see anything wrong with what they love.

I get his love for vinyl and all that, but often find that many that are "So in love" with something, tend to exaggerate strengths and minimize weaknesses.

As to an agenda, it is not hidden at all. He wants everyone to love what he loves. Nothing wrong with that at all. I simply find the hyperbole a bit unrealistic.

Sorry to state my opinion.

I did not realize we all have to agree.

I am happy you wholeheartedly agree with everything he says, and do not question anything. Most are afraid to think, question or scrutinize.

I Could fine a dozen "experts", and you know what? Many of them disagree with each other. Does that make them all wrong, or all right?

It is mostly Opinion, in the end Scott. Maybe he is right about everything he says, but that would make other well regarded experts very wrong then.

 

I was going to suggest to merge this thread with the main Beatles-mono-box-thread, but the way this discussion goes made me change my mind...

 

Actually I have, more than once, in times I thought you were being treated unfairly. Selective memory?

Kevin I'm not calling you on "what you still say" I'm calling you on what **you actually said**. Can you please address **That**? You asserted that he is pushing pseudo science on his readers and pushing a hidden agenda all of which are doing his readers a disservice. Now back it up.

Dude! Fremer is a reviewer. That's_what_reviewers_do. They express their opinions on the things they review. He reviews stuff and tells his readers what he likes.

Claiming that a journalist is pushing pseudo science as legitimate science on his or her readers most certainly challenging their integrity. Claiming a journalist who does subjective reviews has a hidden agenda that is a disservice to his readers most certainly is challenging their integrity. You did both. It's right here on this thread. You can't change that reality. OTOH you can take it back and apologize for it.

asserting that a journalist is pushing pseudo science on his readers to push an agenda goes waaaaaaaay beyond stating an "opinion."

We don't all have to agree Kevin but if you are going to make claims of *fact* not just opinion that a journalist who is also a forum member is pushing pseudo science on his readers in service of a personal agenda and in disservice of his readers you really should have the goods to back it up.

Dude, don't put words in my mouth. That is really obnoxious. Where did I say I agree with everything he says? You are way out of line here.

How about just backing up your assertions? Just do that for a change.

Again, how about just showing us the goods to back up your assertions? You actually really do owe that to Fremer given the fact that you have accused him of pushing pseudo science in the service of a personal agenda at the expense of his readers. That's about the worst thing one could say about a journalist.

 

Scott, I will reply only in this fashion:

If you (an individual, not you personally) wants to convert more people to vinyl:

"You do not tell those that like digital, they are delusional, and are not listening to real music, it has no life, etc etc" In other words, you do not bash something that millions do like. That mostly upsets people.

"You do not claim vinyl has no surface noise" ( as he did in the video, and the host disagreed ), as we know that is not very realistic, and will make more question ones judgement powers or think they are very biased and not realistic.

"One does not claim to not hear rumble", as we all know, the RIAA curve boosts bass by 20 decibels at 20 hz, and it is nearly impossible to have ZERO rumble. A better comment, would be to mention that with a good set up, it is not very noticeable etc.

Otherwise, he made a lot of good points.
Since I intended no disrespect, I felt it was a good discussion, and do not see much to be sorry for.

 

According to this chart, the RIAA curve boost at 20Hz is 19.39 dB, not 20 dB as you posted. Since you are a stickler for accuracy, I thought you might appreciate that correction.

http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/riaa.htm

 

There is a style and form of record producing and mastering that he and many others here prefer ( see my Nora Jones box set post earlier here ) and that's cool with me . But I dislike when he writes that other modern or alternative styles are ****e, which essentially he says if that style died fit his interest.

Not every urban or indie style JD loud or brickwalled. An artist choice should be valid and I feel he thinks otherwise at times.

 

Fremer is incredibly knowlegeable and very opinionated and has occasional bouts of bad taste and dumb humor and flame-war aggression that are hard to take. On the same trip to London during which he secretly visited Abbey Road he strapped a video camera on his head and recorded himself jogging around a London park and posted it on his site. He's a little bit nuts. But despite the scattershot nonsense and baggage he's got an encyclopedic command of his chosen subject and is totally honest and open about his stance and his biases in debates over the virtues of vinyl and analog and digital.

He's by far the most important journalist, critic, and advocate on the subject of vinyl of the last 20 years, and was a very lonely but absolutely crucial voice when most of the world declared vinyl dead and gone and laughably obsolete in the face of perfect sound forever and vast 128 kbps libraries. Dude deserves to say I told you so, and he does. Ding him for obnoxiousness but not for lack of integrity.

(Now if only someone could design a filter to edit out Scott Wilkinson's incessant and demonic chuckles in that damn podcast of his.)

 

He also needs to figure out how to point that head cam at what he wants it to see.

 

I was the frontman of a garage band and with full expectations of changing the world.

<smacks head>

 

Interesting parts, but he's one of the few people who's heard the new mono TB master mix & he barely mentioned how it sounded.

For years I read raves about the mono LPs. Personally, I was disappointed with the metallic sound of the mono cd set.

And those hard panned early records couldn't have done the songs justice. I can't wait to hear this box.

 

I really enjoyed reading him in the late eighties and early nineties when he pretty much seemed the lone voice (along with Harry Pearson) in championing vinyl when everyone else had gone digital. Got to hang out and talk music with him one afternoon - he's a true music lover and audiophile critic who dug Rock & Roll which was also refreshing back then.

 

I'm generally a fan of Fremer's, and I read his blog pretty regularly. I have been critical of him here, but only because I think he overstates his case. Still, someone's got to be the format's zealous and righteous defender, and he has carried that role admirably.

 

Ha! Isn't that what Jack White has at Third Man, an actual car, with a broadcast signal feed from the studio?

 

if the question was 35 years ago instead of 25, then this would have been my answer too.

 

This thread has disintegrated

 

I actually find Fremer interesting to listen to but I get sick of being brow-beaten about the superiority of vinyl every time he seems to appear.
It's like, dude just rein it in a little bit ...... I get it already !
Please just let me like what I like and makes me happy.
Start badgering me and I'll switch off.

 

No worries Steve,
I don't know ........ I guess I've reached saturation point with the "vinyl's great, CD sucks" movement.
It's just frustrating, as I don't think CD sounds as bad as many are now making it out to be and likewise just because it's vinyl doesn't immediately make it better.
Could be I'm just getting grumpier too .......

 

25 years ago, where was he?[/QUOTE]

Writing for the Absolute Sound and complaining about digital, I believe. I'm not certain why that matters.

 

Many are tired of hearing it you are not alone. Records and CDs are here to stay and everyone's choice as to what they prefer. There is good in both I think. I haven't seen a movement either way.

 

Except I don't think even the vinyl fanatics, including Fremer, say CDs suck. Fremer, from what I have seen, says that there were serious problems, such as jitter, when they first came out. The digital guys usually seem to be the ones hammering the vinyl guys. Us vinyl enthusiasts usually seem to just be saying that CDs are perfectly fine, we just prefer our records. Vinyl people may get defensive and start getting technical but I honestly don't know a single record guy who doesn't also have tons of CDs.