Beatles Mono VINYL box set (Part #16)

Couple of things here - " I love the new mono vinyl box but, PPM sounds better, (more top end and fresher sound probably due to the tapes being newer), on the BC13. - The 'BC13' as you call it is stereo so comparing the mono PPM to it is apples to oranges and the reply "They were also mastered using tubes whereas the new ones were mastered with solid state." In all likelyhood a stereo PPM in a BC13 box is not tube cut but a much later solid state rendering from the mid 70's. It would need to be a -1 matrix for it to be the same as the original 1963 stereo.

 

Yep still there! Did a mini price check and the Beatles official site has it for £266.99 and Amazon for £254.64. I've committed to getting them separately now and I'm working through that quest (getting sidetracked by the Japanese SHM CD's though!)

 

Nik and Magnus are right - its well documented

 

Maybe it was fatigue in listening to the whole set in sequence over the course of a week...bearing in mind that the albums more or less sound very good...but Mono Masters was just not all that to my ears. It definitely seemed to be cut much hotter than the other discs in the collection. My system isn't top-end by any stretch, but the other records didn't have the deficiencies that MM consistently had (sibilance, distortion).

Still, lots of love for the Mono Box, and it already has me giving away some of my old Capitol pressings to friends

 

WOW, that Hey Jude thing has certainly stirred up a hornets nest. I don't think that I knew about it being a fold down. Tin hat on now but, I don't like the song, It wouldn't be in my top 100 Beatles songs. If it were three & a half minutes then maybe. Just my opinion.

 

Archie, first up welcome! Nice long post too with your opinion and so far you seem to escaped unflamed for your comments

Lets start a the beginning of your post :

I am listening on a system capable of resolving low level detail.

All of the tracks on Mono Masters were recorded on either 2 track or 4 track recorders with lots of bouncing of various componets to make up for the lack of 'extra' tracks to play with. The first 8 track recording on MM is Hey Jude and it wasnt done at Abbey Road it was done at a different studio, Trident. They had an 8 track available and this recording caused many problems as it was basically incompatible with the EMI equipment.

So there really isnt much chance of any of it being audiophile standard. These were/are heavily compressed 45rpm singles made for AM radio not a King Crimson LP.

Reading Michael Fremer's review of this set where it got a 10/10 on all counts music + sound lead me to believe that I would be getting something in the area of the absolute sound as far as quality goes. Don't get me wrong, Mikey is good for this hobby and I have been enjoying his material for as long as I can remember, but I think he is off in the case.

Mikey gave the reissue 10/10 as it was a excellent set made with great care. There will of course be pressing difficulties with making over 50,000 box sets (or 3/4 of a million records )and the Optimal plant was running at full capacity for many many months to press these records. Your MM is clearly a dud and you really need to exchange it for another. There is nothing at all wrong with mine (nor many many others as evidenced by their posts). I can state for a fact the the cats at my house ran as fast as they could from the room when Revolution came on and the chickens next door stopped laying.

Analogue Signal Path.

If this bothers you then the originals are around - they sold quite a few of them in the 60's . But the price is in the multiple 100's of dollars now for a NM one - that's why these have been so warmly received - they cost 30 bucks or less for a LP that is 99% there.

Quality.

As with lots of new releases the quality control isn't always 100%. This isn[t news. Off centre , spindle hole too tight etc etc. If your MM is as you describe with those 'faults' then send it back and get another. My one was perfect - I cant be the only one who got one.

Sound.

Like I said up above - these are 45's from 2 or 4 track tapes - they are pop songs - they are not Deutsche Gramaphon Berlin Philharmonic recordings in stereo. No one has ever held them up to be test record quality. However compared to teh original 45's the MM set is better in most of the songs presented. Those original 45's had a lot going on form about 65 on and the LP format for them is a big improvement .

Your questions -

A - has been answered by 2 or 3 posters in this thread
B - the % of disappointed to 'OMG what the f#$% is this! This is amazing!!' is about 2% to 98% so you are unfortunately in a very small minority. So you might be crazy , yes
C - I have EX copies of all of the UK monos and the new ones are not inferior nor superior - they are a slightly different presentation of the material but they can hold their head up high and play with the big kids no problems. The Mono masters is one of the better LP's in this reissue and Hey Jude is almost certainly not the track to evaluate it. Put on Its All Too Much - turn the volume up to say 5 (I'd say 10 but you have a tube front end so that would prob. be too loud) and sit back and let it wash over you. Dont over analyse it - just let it soak in. The go back a bit and try Rain.

Lets us know how you get on

 

I will say that way back in this thread (many parts ago), I posted my first impressions of MM. On the first play, I was getting some harsh sibilance and distortion in spots, but on subsequent plays my cart tracked with no issues. I put it down to 1) the fact this album is cut pretty hot, and 2) on the first play, any extraneous vinyl bits in the groove quickly build up on the stylus; if the tracking is challenging like on these discs, then there will be some mistracking just because of the crud on the needle. Once that stuff has been swept from the groove by the stylus after a play or two, it should be fine. I would say try it again, but if your disc is actually skipping (and you know your rig is aligned correctly and the stylus is in good shape), I'd return it for another. Considering the time period covered by MM, the sound quality is naturally variable; however, the best tracks are stunning, and nothing is less than excellent IME.

 

I love all this technical talk, I don't know what it means but it sounds cool. For me it's a bit more simple. See the Beatles mono. Play the Beatles in mono. Good music, it's fun.

 

Cut hot, to me, is that it's cut loud. I'm not sure it is. To me, what makes Mono Masters so brilliant is that the songs come off far better than their EP counterparts. There's so much more real estate. Rather than stuffing them onto 2 LPs, they used 3, giving them even more room. The result is that these songs breathe the way they never have before. Sure, not all are the ultimate in demo quality. They weren't recorded that way to begin with. But it's largely in the midrange where these reissues shine. There is more dynamic range, more headroom, more resolution, more low level detail. The vinyl is also generally much quieter than original UK Parlophone vinyl.

Someone mentioned that his BC 13 box PPM sounded fresher, probably due to fresher tapes. Well, for one, as someone mentioned, the poster is comparing stereo to mono. The stereo mixes are more dynamic. Secondly, all of the original LPs were mastered with a slightly boosted upper midrange. The new monos are more neutral, for better or worse in your listening experience. Finally, the new PPM had to be made with a 2nd generation master. It still sounds really good to me. I have an early PPM mono, and it does have that brighter high end. It gives it some excitement that the new one doesn't have as much. But I hear more low level detail in the new one and the bass is more extended, so I can appreciate certain other aspects to the songs.

 

Often times when reviewers give a mastering of an older recording like this a 10, that usually means they feel this is the best this recording is going to sound. Not that the recording itself is setting a benchmark for sound quality.

 

I have been slowly buying the individual albums in this set, instead of buying the box. Probably a mistake as I almost have all of them (do not have PPM, WTB, AHDN, and Help!).
I just received MM today, because of the high praise here. Can't wait to spend some time with this one. My question is how to protect the album cover, as it is too big to fit any of the plastic sleeves I have on hand. I removed each of the records and are storing separately, but need advice on the cover. Many thanks...

 

There are outer sleeves manufactured to fit box sets. That's probably what you want to look for here.

 

Sounds like you've got a bum pressing, as my MM doesn't have 1 skip on it at all.

A little late, but it appears your expectations were too high.
Some of the mono tracks sound unbelievably good, others less than so.
It is overall, if you take the time to really listen, a different listening experience than the stereo or digital versions.
The best thing you can do is completely erase all expectations before listening.
I'd recommend putting on RS next, as it seems to be the most highly regarded of the new mono pressings, and I feel its the best of the 5 I have so far purchased (RS, Revol,SP,MMT, and MM)

 

This is what I take issue with, a 10/10 on sound means it sounds good there is no footnote saying that...it has the sound of a 6/10 but it gets 4 extra points becuase every other pressing sounds worse. I think reviewers need to be careful, as do people grading LPs, I made the analogy in my post.

The reviews should read, "... this is the best version thus far compared to x,y, and z because of typical audiophile adjectives a,b, and c however it is still not demo quality material and sounds like an old cheap tabletop radio."

I am exaggerating of course, but you get my point.

 

Thanks for the info on RS, I appreciate that. As for the listening, I call it like a hear it I guess. I was however biased by the overwhelmingly positive reviews and was expecting demo/reference quality sound from the plate. I cant help but feel a little bit taken back since it was OPUD.


Yes... you guessed it


OVER PROMISED AND UNDER DELIVERED

I wish someone out there in reviewer vinyl fanatic land would have just said that this release is not great, but it is the best you will get out of these recordings; as many of you are saying that this is the case.

 

Did anyone notice a difference in overall sound quality on the Albums compared to the MM 3-LP set ?

 

Let me see if I have this right Archie. The problem is with all of the reviewers - a consipiracy of dunces - and not your expectations?

 

I don't have the mono masters, but I have Hard Day's, Beatles For Sale, Help and MMT monos.

I think they sound great and better than I have ever heard them before.

However, They didn't blow my mind, open my eyes, or make me think I was hearing the albums for the very first time.

They will not cure cancer, end world hunger or cause peace in the middle east.

 

The recording quality can vary, but there ARE songs that are close to demo quality. "Yesterday", "Within You, Without You", "Revolution" on Mono Masters, to name a few. Admittedly, most of the stereo counterparts are more dynamic and will sound that way. But there is a rightness to most of the mono mixes.

Is every album sonically a 10 in absolute terms? No. But there is a presence and naturalism to most of these that just sound right. The first side of Help! is largely an exception, as it sounds muffled. But overall, none sound abysmal, none have that digititus (since they're all analog), and it's among the greatest body of work in rock and pop (We can argue Burt Bacharach, Ray Davies, Pete Townshend, and Rodgers and Hart another time.).

I give the set, in the end, an 8 for sonics. The stereo albums may get a higher rating in that regard, but they're not necessarily more satisfying to listen to, musically speaking.

 

I agree with everything you said. I have the originals as well. They're nice, but the lower end extension, being less bright and higher resolution make these a real winner in my book.

 

But it is great. Some of the best music ever created. I know this is an audiophile forum but sometimes it seems things get in the way for some to simply enjoy the music.

 

You are actually disappointed that they arent "demo/reference quality sound from the plate"

You really had no idea what these would sound like? The Beatles? never heard a mono Beatles record of any sort?


Probably time to stop reading about what others think and finding out for yourself.

 

I'd never heard this, and always presumed it was a dedicated mono mix based on the different mixing dates for the released mono and stereo versions. Not that I doubt you, but I am curious where you got that information. Is that from Lewisohn's book?

 

It's in 'Chronicles'. It may be in 'Recording Sessions' too. Do you recall the old story about someone hearing the original stereo acetate and imploring The Beatles issue it in stereo "to be worshipped"? Sounds good. But it was folded down and remixed for stereo anew when Capitol put together the Hey Jude LP about 16 months later.

 

It looks to me like Archie was maybe too new to know that this board is full of Beatle fans who are going to praise everything they do especially when said recordings do sound good. I don't have any first pressings of any of these mono albums so I have nothing to compare but they sound very good to me and I'm glad I bought the box.